GENESIS AND NO RAIN BEFORE NOAH?
The following was a debate on this subject in 1997 on a "forum"
I was on.
This subject is NOT a matter of salvation, but you may find it
interesting. I give my answers to a somewhat "common" teaching
that there was NO rain before the days of Noah.
NO rain teaching:
The following is the scriptural evidence for a water heaven--a
canopy rather than clouds of today which are IN not ABOVE the
firmament-heaven. This is listed in Joseph Dillow's book, THE
WATERS ABOVE:
My answer:
It is time for me to get my sleeves rolled up and answer. First
let me say that as far as the "technical" science that Dillow
puts forth I am NOT qualified to answer or argue with. I am not
skilled in such matters, but I did appreciate the answers we
received from Ewin on this technical side of things. I know that
for every specialist of science that puts forth a theory or dogma
there is another scientist to contradict the first one.
I will with the skills I have stick to the Bible.
No rain teaching:
l.There was no rain. A mist came up instead (Genesis 2:5-6).
The cool of the day would condense a mist out; no erosion or
floods - nothing violent.
My answer:
A very common argument. It has sometimes been assumed that there
was no rain upon the earth until the days of the flood of Noah.
Sermons have been told about Noah building the ark - all of which
made him appear insane as there had been no rain. But is that
what the Bible says? Take a very close look at Gen.2:4-6.
This passage is talking about plants and herbs BEFORE they grew,
created as full grow, and BEFORE man was created. Before man and
before plants seeded themselves and grew, a mist went up from the
earth and watered the ground. Usually if you buy a plant from the
store and dig it into your garden you will immediately water it
also to get it started well. So it was with God. After He created
these plants full grown, He watered them. As man had not yet been
created to care for them, and other things were still to be
re-organized in the earth and heaven which would take its natural
course to produce rain, God watered these plants with a mist, a
dew if you like, all around the earth.
This passage describes the condition of things BEFORE there was a
man to till the ground, and before conditions that make rain
happen. It was AT THIS TIME that it had not yet rained upon the
earth. Would this necessarily prove it did not rain after the
Lord made man? Can this passage prove it did not rain until the
days of the flood of Noah, which was well over a thousand years
later?
What this passage says is simply this: there was a time when the
Lord had not caused it to rain on the earth. It also says there
was no man and that plants were not yet seeding and growing. But
soon plants did seed and grow. Soon there was a man on the earth.
The very fact that Moses(the author of Genesis) mentions rain and
that it did not rain until there was a man to till the ground
suggests to me that IT DID RAIN after there was a man, and after
plants started to seed themselves. Moses could have easily,
somewhere in these first few chapters of Genesis(up to the flood
time) stated: "It never rained upon the earth until the flood."
Or "The earth was watered by a mist from the time of Adam to the
flood of Noah." Such language would have been simple for Moses to
have written, but he did not come close to saying any such words.
All he says here is that until man, God watered the plants and
herbs with a mist, and in mentioning rain, the conclusion is, it
then did rain after man was created. Rain is SO COMMON that if we
had a whole AGE of no rain, I believe we would have been told
VERY PLAINLY somewhere in the Bible, but such plain words are not
to be found.
No rain teaching:
Four rivers ran through the entire earth (2:10-14).
My answer:
I see no words in this passage that talk about "the whole earth"
or the "entire earth." I see words such as "Eden" - "garden" -
"whole land" - Ethiopia" - "Assyria." Obviously this is the area
where man was created and is the focal point of the narrative.
God
is not dealing with the North American area, or the land that
became Australia, or China, or Brazil. Even if He was, what has
four rivers got to do with rain or no rain for an entire age?
Rivers run today to the sea, water evaporates from the sea into
the air to meet cold masses and form clouds that meets other air
to produce rain, that flows into rivers to the sea, and so the
cycle continues. This passage proves nothing about the idea of no
rain until the flood of Noah.
No rain teaching:
There was one basic location for the sea (1:9).
My answer:
There was no dry land at this time. The words and figure
of speech Moses used here MAY NOT mean that there was just ONE
LAND MASS and one SEA MASS. It may be just a language speech that
is telling us God here brought the land called earth into being
from the waters called seas. You will notice NOTHING is said
about "the earth being in one place." The sea of the world could
be said to be "unto one place" because the sea is connected as
one. Two thirds of the earth is sea. Look at a world globe, where
is the sea not connected as one. We may give different parts of
that one different sea names (the Atlantic, the Pacific etc.) but
it is all one. The earth masses NOT so. Some want to say the land
mass was all one at one time, there may be some truth to parts
having been together once and split away later. But to try to be
dogmatic about all land being one at the beginning is pure
speculation. The Bible is silent on the matter.
And even if it was so, what has that got to do with proving the
no rain until the flood idea?
It still rains on the huge land mass of the
Europe/Russian/China etc. nations.
No rain teaching:
Eden was elevated so river water fed from springs (as the
Millennial Jerusalem to come - same spot as Eden(?)) flowed
downhill to the rest of the planet. The rivers were sluggish
without much gradient and little erosion resulted.
My answer:
So what I ask? What has any of that got to do with no rain until
the flood theory? Will there be no rain in the Millennium?
No creation of rain is mentioned, only another means of
watering. I've answered that above covering Gen.2:4-6.
Genesis is a book of beginnings and when an event happens it is
most likely the first occurrence and when it first originated.
Moses mentions rain in chapter 2:4-6, only that it had not rained
upon the earth before man was created to till the ground. I think
it is quite clear what Moses was saying. After man and after the
plants seeded themselves it did rain.
No rain teaching:
There were no rainbows prior to the Deluge (9:13).
My answer:
So what I ask? Are you trying to tell me God MUST HAVE rainbows
to have it rain on the earth? It is written: "all things are
possible with God." You nor I were living back then, nor do you
know anyone who was, nor do we have any written scientific log
books from that time, telling us the science God used during that
age. If God wanted it to rain on the earth, He sure did not HAVE
to use as automatic "can't be done without" rainbows. You are
trying to tie a present reality with the science that goes with
it, to prove a past reality (the way you claim it was) that God
does not need, because He can do anything as He wills with what
science or unscientific(as some things science cannot explain)
way He chooses. God is not dependant upon how WE say it should be
through our science.
No rain teaching:
Rainbows can only be produced when droplet size is greater than
.30 millimeters, thus rain drops not mist make rainbows possible.
Small rainbows could be made artificially with sprinkling water
and a light source, but the grand and glorious natural ones are
spoken of here. No rain, a mist and no rainbow mutually
reinforce each other.
My answer:
I am not a scientist. No need to get into the scientific side of
rainbows anyway. The Bible tells us very plainly WHY God created
the rainbow. It had nothing to do with mist or rain at all. Read
Gen.9:8-17. God set the rainbow in the clouds or the sky for ONE
REASON ONLY. To remind mankind of the sworn covenant God made
with all mankind and living creatures - flesh would never again
be cut off from the earth by a flood of waters. That's it! No
more and no less! God created the science(if you want to look at
it from the physical) for rainbows at THIS TIME. Then maybe not,
who knows, the science may have already been there but God simply
chose not to have rainbows BEFORE this time. He is God you know,
not us. He can do want He likes when He likes, with whatever He
likes. That is why scientists who do not believe in God get all
messed up, because some things DEFY science, and the Lord sits
back and laughs at them.
Can it rain upon the earth WITHOUT rainbows? On, you bet it can!
I lived for 18 years(the first of my life) in England. I have
seen it rain, and rain, and thunder storm and rain, for probably
hundreds of days in those 18 years, and only NOW and THEN during
all those rain days, was there a rainbow in the sky.
I lived in Florida for three years(1992-95). During the summer
months it rains at least once a day for an hour or so. Most of
those days you never see a rainbow, only now and then is there
one.
I lived on the prairies of Canada, in the Toronto area for 12
years. I've lived in B.C. for three years. I travelled all over
North America, east, west, north, and south. I'm now living in
N.B. the far east of Canada. Seen many many days of rain over
those years, and few rainbow times.
Can it rain WITHOUT rainbows appearing? I guess it can! So why
should it seem incredulous to think God could have an age(from
Adam to Noah) where it rained but never had a rainbow?
No rain teaching:
Signs and seasons (1:14) were told upon the creation of the
apparent heavenly bodies which regulate them. The Sabbath
(2:2-3) was declared when the 7th day was sanctified. Cain's
mark (4:15) was explained when it was created. Prior usage,
therefore, suggests that the introduction of an item as a sign
amounts to the introduction of the item itself. Covenant signs
as baptism and circumcision are for man, but rainbows are for
God to remember and made by God. The other signs remind man of
an obligation--the rainbow reminds God of one; thus, it is a
different category of sign.
There were no seasons prior to the Deluge (8:22).
My answer:
Wait a minute, this verse does not say(God speaking): "Now I will
create different seasons, now there will be seedtime and harvest
time, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and right, as there
were none before this flood."
Was there day and night before the flood? You bet! Was there
seedtime and harvest before the flood? I guess so! Cain and Abel
brought offerings of the land to the Lord. Adam was to produce
from the land but it was also to yield "thorns and thistles" as
well, for his sin. Cain was to till the ground but it would not
yield its full strength, a part of his penalty for his sin.
As all these were before the flood, was there also cold and
heat(I'm not saying cold like the South Pole or heat like humid
south Florida), summer and winter(again I'm not saying they
contrasted each other like they do in Canada and the northern
USA)? They are all mentioned in the same breath. As there were
some before the flood the logic says there were the others also.
This verse is NOT telling us that God was NOW, after the flood
creating these things. The context goes back to verse 21. God had
brought to an end for a period of time(while the waters were upon
the earth), as looking at things from the surface of the
earth(standing on the land of the earth), seedtime, harvest,
cold, heat, summer, winter, day and night. If you had been able
to survive(in some plastic bubble) on the land of the earth under
the water, you would not have been able to have experienced ANY
of the things God here mentions, not even day and
night(everything would have been black as coal under the water
that covered the hills and the mountains (chapt.7:19,20). Which
by the way clearly shows there were hills and mountains before
the flood for the waters of the flood covered them.
Because of the evil of the heart of man, God had for a time
brought seedtime, harvest, cold, heat, summer, winter, day and
night to an end. Mankind, in Noah's society, had come to an end
except Noah and his family (8 persons). Now God was making a
promise to Noah, and to all mankind from that day forth, that He
would while His physical plan was still in the physical, never
again destroy every living thing in whom was the breath of life,
by the waters of a huge flood. He was promising in this
verse 22, that while the physical earth remained, the natural
things He had created from the beginning of the re-forming of the
earth would continue, would not cease. That's what God is saying
here! He was certainly NOT saying "I will now create these
things ...... which did not exist in the pre-flood age." If
God was now creating these things then plain words of creation
would have been used as was in chapter 1 and 2. Such words were
not used and I contend that they were not because such things had
been from the beginning.
No rain teaching:
Seasons in 1:14 refer to the Feasts as Leviticus 23:4,
God-appointed Holy Days which must have been known before the
Deluge. The Hebrew word "moadim" specifically indicates these
special days. Ordinary weekly Sabbaths only require knowing 7-day
cycles. The seasons were named after the deluge was over. There
was a uniform temperature with the canopy and slight air
movement. Again, first mention, first existence and an
interdependence of no rain, mist, no rainbow, and no seasons.
My answer:
..................
To be continued
Entered on this website October 2007
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