QUESTION
LIST #10:
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What is the difference
between a Post-Tribulation Rapture theory and no Rapture at all?
-
What does Jesus mean by
"a thief in the night"?
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Where is satan today?
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Is the Throne of God
guarded and why?
-
Can Christians fellowship
with the apostate Catholic Church, and what is the Sabbath day NOW?
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Question #9
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Question #8
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Can Christians fellowship with the
apostate Catholic Church, and what is the Sabbath day NOW?
Diane asks:
Is it okay to go a catholic church even though I am
not catholic-just to be with a friend. My friend wanted me to go
with her because she is a friend of mine and wanted me to pray with her.
I Don't want to do anything to get our Father mad at me. HOW do
you handle a situation when you have friends of other denominations??
Also, the 4th commandment, remember the sabbath day to
keep it holy?? Please explain as my friends say it pertains to not
working on Sunday but CHRIST is our Sabbath, so how does one answer
that?
Thanks
Diane
Answer:
Hi Diane:
Sure you can go wherever you want, the
Lord knows what's in your heart. Sure the Catholic Church is
overburdened with idol worship, Saint worship, Mother Mary worship, ...
But when you are in those places, the Lord knows that you are not
worshiping their idols, you're just being a good friend, for your friend
may be troubled and she is reaching out to God the only way she ever knew.
Our Father looks at intent, it's all about what's in your heart, He
is a ‘Heart Knower!'
Perhaps the Lord is using you to reach
your friend, or perhaps the Lord wants you to observe first hand the
blatant idolatry (you will be shocked)! so that you can speak knowledge
when you discuss with a Catholic about the error of their church.
They will tell you that they don't worship Mother Mary - they
only reverence her - It's the same thing, as you shall see when you watch
them bow down and kiss the idols, light candles to them, offer Roses and
gifts to the 'Queen of Heaven':
Jer
44:25-27
(God
speaking)
25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel,
saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and
fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that
we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and
to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your
vows, and surely perform your vows.
26 Therefore hear ye the word of the LORD, all Judah
that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name,
saith the LORD, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any
man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord GOD liveth.
27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not
for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt
shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an
end of them. (KJV)
The 'Queen of Heaven':
Pope
Pius XII (1939-58), a Pope many today still remember,described Mary as 'Queen
of Heaven'. It was he, on November 1st 1950, who proclaimed ex-Cathedra
'from the seat' (infallibly) that Mary's body was raised from the
grave shortly after shedied, and she was taken up and enthroned as
'Queen of Heaven.'
At St. Peter Square on Easter Day
1988, Pope John Paul II's message included a prayer: "to the Queen
of Heaven for protection and peace in the world." The
only references to befound in Scripture of the 'Queen of Heaven' relate to
theCanaanite pagan goddess to whom the Israelites burned incense,made
cakes and poured out drink offerings, and who was detestable and wicked in
the eyes of the Lord.
While
the veneration with which Mary, the Mother of Christ, is regarded by the
Catholic church is indicated in various indirect ways, for example by the
large nimbus, such as may be seen in the pictures of the Crucifixion in
the Rabulas manuscript of A.D. 586. As early as A.D. 540 we find a
mosaic in which she sits enthroned as Queen of Heaven in the
centre of the apex of the cathedral of Parenzo in Austria, which was
constructed at that date by Bishop Euphrasius.
CC
(Catechism) 966:
"Finally
the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin,
when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and
soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as QUEEN
over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her
Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.'
[LG
59; cf. Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus (1950): DS 3903; cf. Rev
19:16.]
The
Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her
Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other
Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition
you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the
source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will
deliver our souls from death."
[Byzantine
Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.]
I
wouldn't try to dump a whole lot on your friend all at once, but after
going with her to her Catholic church while she prays to
dead 'Pope appointed Saints' and the deceased woman Mother Mary, you might
afterwards invite her for coffee and gently tell her that she needn't have
gone there to speak to God, God can hear her just fine in the privacy of
her own bedroom, she needn't go to some grand church building and take a
spot on a pew with the others, she can pray alone, that's what God really
wants from us. Not Hail Mary, after Hail Mary, after Hail Mary, ...
Matt
6:5-7
(Jesus
Christ speaking)
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the
hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in
the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say
unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into
thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which
is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee
openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain
repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard
for their much speaking. (KJV)
She
doesn't know any better, but you do, so you can go and sit with her if it
means that much to her, but you should not bow down to the images and
idols and pray to any other besides God. For if you know better, then
you will be judged for that.
Your Catholic friend has been taught
to pray to this Saint or that Saint, or, to pray to the deceased mother of
Messiah (I wish they would let her rest in peace, they really do her a
disservice by making a virtual goddess out her - It's the ultimate insult
to her memory and Christ's as well!!!). But Jesus Christ, our
Savior, He told us how we should pray, and to whom we should pray to:
Matt
6:9-13
(Jesus speaking)
9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our
Father
which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in
earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our
debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us
from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the
glory, for ever. Amen. (KJV)
Tell
her that you will go with her because she is your friend and it seems
important to her, but tell her that really feel uncomfortable because you
know that it is against what our Heavenly Father has told us in the First
and Second Commandments. You might show her this Scripture below,
for in her Catholic Catechism they ‘jimmy' the Ten Commandments to allow
their idol worship. The combine the First and Second Commandment to
make it look like it is only speaking against other gods,
and not their Saints and Mother Mary, and their idols and statues and
images,... Then they split the Tenth Commandment into two (the 9th
and 10th) so they can still end up with ten:
Exod
20:3-6
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(First
Commandment)
4
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any
thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that
is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve
them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of
them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love
me, and keep my commandments. (KJV)
(Second
Commandment)
Below
is the Tenth Commandment, but in the Catholic Church, through their
Catechism (teaching), it is divided into two Commandments, the Ninth and
Tenth - so that they still can get ten all together -- tricky huh?
Exod
20:17
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou
shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his
maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy
neighbour's. (KJV)
(Tenth
Commandment)
I
would only go once to enable you the opportunity to witness the truth to
her, and most certainly do not pray to the statues of dead people
or idols! But be polite, and you can say your own prayer to God,
even from the Pew of that Catholic Church. Ask Him to lead you as
far as what to say, and what not to say, to your friend about what's going
on. But don't lose a friend over it, and don't lose yourself over it
either. Pray to our Father for guidance, He will lead you in all
matters that you trust Him with.
A Christian can go anywhere the want
because the lord is with them, a Christian strong in the faith and love of
Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father the Lord God need not fear, they
could walk among the very demons of hell and not be tainted nor touched.
For those who truly love the lord and keep His ways are protected
always anywhere (but we do exercise common sense as well).
And don't let your going somewhere
mislead someone into thinking that they are doing right in the eyes of the
lord when they are not. In other words, I personally would not go
except to use the opportunity to witness Jesus Christ and the Gospel to
that friend -- or else why go?
As
regarding your question about the Sabbath Day: Actually, the Sabbath
was on Saturday not Sunday, the Catholic Church changed it to Sunday which
was pagan in origin (Sunday = the day of the sun -- sun worship). I
don't know how far you wish to take it about the pagan practices of the
Catholic Church regarding sun worship, but, on the altar during Mass, the
priest retrieves the Eucharist (Communion Bread) from a round golden
holder with the Eucharist fitted into the center. That holder is a
sunburst.
Take a look on Sunday Catholic
Television services where the camera does a close-up of the altar (EWTN is
the all-Catholic network on most cable carriers, and you can view it
there). That sunburst even has the sun rays engraved into it. It is
pagan in origin (the sun god Ra) and an insult to God. Also,
the Catholic Eucharist is a disc, this is not always the shape of the
Communion bread, there is also a 'biscuit' Eucharist which is shaped like
a little loaf. The Catholic Church instituted to disc shaped
Eucharist -- take a guess why - It's a mini-sun. I could go on and
on, even mentioning the 'IHS' stamped into the disc, or transubstantiation
but you get the point. The Catholic Church is Christian only in
pretense. But I don't know how much of this you would want to lay on
your friend all at once.
PS:
The Hebrews, to this very day, keep the original Sabbath day (Saturday).
Jesus Christ became our Sabbath (Sabbath means 'rest'). So when the
Bible says to keep the Sabbath forever, we Christians do keep it, but we
can have that Sabbath (rest) everyday.
Matt
11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will
give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in
heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (KJV)
Many things were accomplished at the crucifixion, another one of them was
circumcision. Circumcision is now of the heart and includes women:
Rom
2:25-29
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou
be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law,
shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the
law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the
law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that
circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is
not of men, but of God. (KJV)
PS:
If you take Mass (receive Communion) the priest will say to as he hands
you the disc (wafer) "This is the body of Christ" or
shortened to: "body of Christ." You then are
required to say Amen (which means: "That's the way it is.").
What he is saying is that the wafer has actually become the literal flesh
of Jesus Christ instead of just representing it. This is called
transubstantiation and is unique to Catholicism, and they re-crucify
Christ every Sunday, and then in true pagan form they vicariously perform
cannibalism. The whole Catholic Church is a hell hole (sorry).
So when the priest hands it to
you (or places it on your tongue), tell him Amen, but then in your mind
tell God that it only REPRESENTS the body of Christ - and it will then be
a good Communion between you and Christ Jesus. God understands that
if you don't answer the priest he will withhold our Saviors Communion from
you -- nice, huh? Shades of the Inquisitions.
Don't get me going on the Catholic Church Diane (I mean that
lightheartedly).
PSS: I used to be a Catholic from a young lad up -- until I read
the Bible instead of the Catholic Catechism that is!
Related
studies on Catholicism:
Mother
Mary Apparitions: The hidden dark side
Read about the apparitions the Church isn't telling you!
The
History of Christianity (Roman)
The historical formation and progress of
Christianity; from the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ on through the origin
of the different Christian denominations, up to our modern day
Christianity, then on through the prophesied 'Great' Apostasy of the
book of Revelation, and into the Second Advent of the Messiah Jesus
Christ. Some chapter headings:
The events of the life and times of Jesus Christ /
The development of Christianity into the different
denominations / The
Catholic Popes / The
Jesuit Priesthood / The
reformation / Persecutions
/ The
Rapture 'Doctrine' / A
look at Biblical prophecy future yet /
Conclusion, what we can each do on an individual
level. For the history of the British Church, the first Christian
Church, see: The
first Christian Church A.D. 37: at Glastonbury; Britain
(below).
Do
Catholics Worship the Mother Mary? And if they do, is it against God's
Word? It
has been said that actions speak louder than words. And while the
average Catholic may tell you that they do not worship the Mother Mary,
their actions say something quite different. Let's examine the
danger in this. Foremost of all, it must be stated that we do not
intend to disrespect the Mother of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
We recognize her as a highly moral woman, who while yet being a virgin,
conceived the Messiah Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit of
Almighty God. It is our endeavor to lay bare the evidence that the
Roman Catholic Church has erred in elevating Mother Mary to a status
that is blasphemous even, and in doing so, places all Catholic
lay-persons in danger of worshipping her as a goddess figure. This
of course, as we shall show, is against the whole of God's command.
EXPOSING
THE EMERGENCE OF THE FIRST BEAST OF REVELATION CHAPTER 13
For a deeper understanding of how
the 'first beast' will manifest itself. And how current events are
shaping up for the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.
Bye-bye,
and God bless you!
Nick
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Question #7
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Question #6
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Is the Throne of God guarded and why?
Lloyd asks:
About the protectors or guardians of the mercy seat in
the first world age. What was the reason for these guards and from
what was the mercy seat being protected?
Lloyd
Answer:
Attack!!! The Mercy Seat, as well as the very
Throne of God is always protected! Since you mention the first earth
age I assume that you know what happened to cause God to destroy that age
and then cause our present one to be. But for the benefit of a newer
student I will briefly touch on it.
In the first earth age
(chronologically occurring between {Gen 1:1 and 1:2} (actually in the
middle of verse 2) we were all with God in spiritual bodies: "When
the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for
joy" {Job 38:7}.
Job 38:4-7 (God
speaking to Job)
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare,
if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath
stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the
corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons
of God shouted for joy? (KJV)
Satan, then called Lucifer, rebelled
against God and drew one-third of God's children, us (the whole Host:
"Host of Heaven" {Gen
2:1}. "morning stars" {Job 38:7}. "stars of
Heaven" {Rev 12:4}) with
him in an overthrow attempt against God, mentioned in {Rev 12:4a (first
half of verse 4)}. God put down the rebellion and abruptly
terminated that first earth age {Jer 4:23-26 & 2nd Peter 3:5-6}, and
paved the way for this second earth age (our present one) {Jer 4:27
& 2nd Peter 3:7}.
In this second earth age we are
all born of woman innocent of any sin from before, nor can we see beyond
the 'veil' back into the first earth (though some have flashes.
Have you ever felt like something happened before?) and we are to decide
whether to follow God through Jesus Christ or satan through the world.
This is NOT reincarnation! There is no such thing as
reincarnation! We can only pass through each earth age once: "And
as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the
judgment" {Heb 9:27}. There
is very little written of that first earth age, but there are some
things about it in the Scriptures. See:
When
was The beginning?
Learn when the true beginning of creation was, and of the three Earth
ages. Discover why God had to destroy the first Earth Age.
The Mercy Seat is depicted on the Ark of the Covenant with two
Cherubim's (protecting angels) on the lid.
Exod 25:18-21 (God
speaking)
18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou
make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other
end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends
thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering
the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to
another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark
thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. (KJV)
Cherubim are a class of Angels, satan was a Cherubim
before pride made him fall. Yes, satan once protected the Mercy Seat
in Heaven, but he didn't want to protect the Mercy Seat, he wanted to sit
on it, as Christ, as God:
Ezek 28:12-19 (God
speaking)
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus [another
of satan's many many names] , and say
unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of
wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was
thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx,
and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in
the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set
thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up
and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of
thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as
profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O
covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted
thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground,
I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine
iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring
forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee,
and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them
that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee:
thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
[perished - gone completely (though not yet fulfilled) Hence, another of
satan's many names: "the son of perdition" {2nd Thes
2:3}] (KJV)
In Heaven, the throne of God is also protected and seved by another class
of Angels, these are called "Zoon" in the Greek, but is
translated to "beasts" in the English Bible. Do not
confuse these with evil beasts, for these 'beasts' are good:
Rev 4:6-9
6 And before the throne [of God in
Heaven] there was a sea of glass like
unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the
throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf,
and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a
flying eagle.
8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they
were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying,
Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat
on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever (KJV)
Does that help
answer your question? I know this isn't commonly taught, but then, a
lot of things in God's Word aren't commonly taught in the corrupted
end-time churches. I trust that the Scriptures themselves answered
your question.
God Bless!
Nick
WBSG
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Question #5
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Where is satan today?
RW asks:
How can satan be on earth (Job 1:7) and be in Heaven
chained by Michael?
Answer:
Hello RW:
As you
correctly state, satan WAS on earth {Job 1:7}, but he is now incarcerated
in Heaven by Archangel Michael {Rev 12:7}. I understand your
question, but when were the events in Job, and when are the events in
Revelation? You have to "rightly
divide the Word" {2nd Tim 2:15} as to time frames when the
various events occur.
The book of Job is actually the
oldest book in the Bible (See: The
Companion Bible; in the preface to the book of Job).
Satan used to be able to roam
the earth, but no more! We know that satan was in the Garden of Eden
(as the serpent), and then as you state, we saw him again in the book of
Job. When he was taken out and imprisoned in Heaven is not clear,
but some feel that it was in {Mt chpt 4 & Lk chpt. 4} when, after
tempting Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus told satan: "Get
thee hence, Satan" {Mt 4:10}. I feel that is reasonable.
Jesus tells satan the get "hence", which means "get
behind me". Jesus is now in Heaven, so if satan is behind
Him, then satan is in Heaven (incarcerated by Archangel Michael {Rev
12:7}).
Matt 4:10-11
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is
written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou
serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and
ministered unto him. (KJV)
God Bless!
Nick
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Question #4
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What does
Jesus mean by "a thief in the night"?
Jane states:
I see what your saying, and I beg to differ extremely
with you. The thief in the night to me is the rapture of the
church, nothing else. After the 7 years, we do expect him anyway
so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected.
Matthew 24:30 - See Also Zechariah 12:10-14.
This refers to His 2nd Coming with the Saints old and the raptured
saints. See Also Zechariah 14:5 - We come back with him at that
time.
Answer:
Hello Jane:
You wrote:
"I see what your saying, and I beg to differ
extremely with you. The thief in the night to me is the rapture of the
church, nothing else. After the 7 years, we do expect him anyway
so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected."
Jane, the
'thief in the night' Scripture {1st Thes 5:2; 2nd pet 3:10} is
reference to the Second Advent, not some Rapture. Besides, we expect
Jesus to come even now, does that mean He won't come because we expect it?
You seem to be reasoning that He can't come "as a thief"
(unexpectedly) because: "After the 7 years, we do expect him
anyway so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected." Christina,
that 'doesn't hold water' my friend.
What you are trying to do is to
force a Rapture in the Scriptures that is simply not there. Take all
your thoughts on the matter, and pretend for a moment that there isn't
going to be a Rapture - they will all make sense to you then. The
Scriptures cannot contradict and do not each other. Allow me to
share an excerpt about the "thief in the night" Scripture.
This work isn't mine, but I agree with it and don't feel that it can be
improved upon:
By Dave Ramey:
"Concerning Jesus coming as 'a thief in the night', just WHO will
it be like that to? Isn't that an analogy for when a 'thief' is
trying to break into your home at midnight, where one is spiritually
watching and ready, while the other is surprised because they are
spiritually asleep? If that's not what the 'thief in the night'
analogy is about, then what did Paul mean with the following:
1Thes 5:1-4
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I
write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as
a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall
not escape. (KJV)
So WHO will this 'sudden destruction' and this
'travail' be upon? Isn't it for those who are not spiritually
awake at midnight, not knowing the 'times and seasons' of our Lord's
coming?
1 Thes 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in
darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (KJV)
And with this verse by Paul, isn't it to those
of God's elect who will be aware of the main subject of 'times of
seasons' of Christ's return? Therefore, as Paul stressed in this
verse 4, Christ's coming will be no surprise to His true followers, for
they are aware of the 'signs' and events ('times and seasons') our Lord
taught us all throughout His Word." (End
of excerpt)
What Dave was
politely saying above is that those who are waiting for a Rapture are
going to follow the first supernatural being who comes to earth claiming
to be The Messiah from God. The only problem is that satan comes
first as the antichrist claiming to be the Messiah BEFORE the true Jesus
Christ returns at the Second Advent. The Rapturist however, will not
know this and will end up worshiping the wrong one. So then when the
true Jesus Christ returns at His Second Advent, He will be 'quite the
surprise' to the Rapturist (among many others of course).
Ok Jane, then then you supply:
"Matthew 24:30 (1)-
See Also Zechariah 12:10-14 (2).
This refers to His 2nd Coming with the Saints old and the raptured
saints. See Also Zechariah 14:5 (3)-
We come back with him at that time."
Oh, really? Let's look at each one:
(1).
Matthew 24:30:
Ok Jane, come-now. You supply verse 30 and attribute it to a
rapture, but WHEN does verse 30 happen?!?!? look at verse 29!
Matt 24:29-30
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those
days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens
shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son
of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with
power and great glory. (KJV)
Jane, you simply can't take this Scripture apart and
move time sequences to fit a Rapture theory.
(2).
Zechariah
12:10-14: Where is a Rapture in this Scripture?
It is talking about the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. You should notice
a familiar phrase:
Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants
of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and
they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they
shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in
bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
(KJV)
Rev 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye [not
just Rapturists!]
shall see him, and they also which pierced him:
and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so,
Amen. (KJV)
Ps 22:16
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have
inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (KJV)
John 19:34
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and
forthwith came there out blood and water. (KJV)
(3).
Zechariah
14:5: This is a prophecy of the Second Advent,
yes, a 'type'', but you suppose that these "saints" are
Rapture "saints" because you have been predisposed to believe
that. Saint means ''set-aside one'', chosen ones. Every time
the Bible mentions saints you seem to automatically read "Rapture
saints", Jane, you cannot force that into Scripture, the context
will not allow it. You must clear your head of the false Rapture
teachings before you can hope to once again read the Scriptures as they
are written. You unconsciously ''taint'' every Second Advent
Scripture to mean, not a Second Advent, but a pre-second Advent Rapture
that just simply isn't there. And it really does bug me when you
Rapturists call yourself "Saints!" But anyway, below is
the Scripture you mentioned, how can you read a Rapture in this verse?
And you're not alone, stuff like this is what the whole Rapture
doctrines are built around. One almost has to want to be deceived
to actually go for this stuff!
Zech 14:5
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of
the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye
fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (KJV)
You are also
under the misconception that the dead are still in a hole in the ground in
the cemetery, they are not, their souls are with God since the instant of
death. It is those among the deceased that were overcommers over the
generations that shall return with Christ as "Saints." to help
US!
Stick with it Jane, and quit
going to the Rapture doctors for Bible instruction or you will continue to
make errors like the above. Your doing fine, your looking and asking
(or stating), but trust the Scriptures as written, pray to God open them
up to understanding, He will. Take your time and check everything I
am telling here in your Bible. It is just so difficult to un-teach
the misconceptions that have been taught about the Rapture. It is
far easier to teach a new student who has no misconceptions firmly planted
in his/her mind. But stick with it, what we are doing is pleasing to
God, we are acting like those of Berea who found favor: "These
were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word
with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether
those things were so." (Acts 17:11).
And we are complying with the command: "Study
to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be
ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." {2 Tim 2:15}.
Nick
Watchmen Bible Study Group
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Question #3
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What is the difference between a
Post-Tribulation Rapture theory and no Rapture at all?
John asks us
if we at WBSG believe in a 'Post-Tribulation' Rapture. Below is our
answer to him. (PS: the short answer is NO!)
John, You
asked if we were Post-Trib Rapture believers. No, we are
'never-rapture'. Jesus Christ comes for ALL God's children,
the blessed and the self damned, all at the same time, at the seventh
trump "we shall all be
changed" {1 Cor 15:51}, at the Second Advent out of the
only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture:
1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep
[die prior to Second Advent], but we shall all
be changed [ALL those
alive at the Second Advent],
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump [the
seventh, when Christ returns at his Second Advent]:
for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [in
our spiritual bodies, not rotting to dust like our flesh bodies do -
they 'corrupt'], and we shall be
changed. (KJV)
There are
only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture {Zech 9:9 (First
Advent); Zech 9:10 (Second
Advent)}. This is also why Jesus, when reading
from the book of Isaiah in the Synagogue in {Lk 4:17-21} had to stop
reading at the middle of verse {Isa 61:2} when He was reading the
Scripture that spoke of Him, because the words that came after "To
preach the acceptable year of the Lord" would not
be fulfilled until His Second Advent:
Luke 4:17-21
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And
when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to
preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the
brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of
sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat
down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened
on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture
fulfilled in your ears. (KJV)
Below is the
Scripture Christ was referring to, the words in blue
bold are the words that He could not finish reading to them at
that time and still have been able to say that: "This
day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears" because
it will not be fulfilled until the Second Advent:
Isa 61:1-3
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed
me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the
brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of
the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and
the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for
ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit
of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the
planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. (KJV)
We at WBSG
teach that there is no selective taking out, no partial Second Advent , no
pre-second ''Advent'' Advent, not three Advents but only two, and the
Bible declares the same.
Perhaps if you review your
thinking on the matter, you may find that you also do not believe in a
Rapture, but rather, you simply believe what the Bible says about the
chronology of end-time events:
- The Second Advent with Armageddon at that moment
& ALL changed to spiritual bodies (still not judged) - man NEVER
again in the flesh body.
- Then the 1000 year Millennium teaching time {Rev
20:1-6}.
- Then satan loosed a little while to test those taught
in Millennium {Rev 20:7-8}.
- Then God destroys those who follow satan after the
Millennium, satan cast into Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as
Hell) {Rev 20:9-10}.
- Then Judgment Day {Rev 20:11-13}.
- Then all that offend destroyed in Lake of Fire
(commonly referred to as Hell) {Rev 20:13-15}.
- Then the Heaven Age - eternal {Rev 21:1-end of Bible}
(till the end time which never ends).
No Rapture in there is there!!!
God Bless!
Nick
Watchmen Bible Study Group
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Question #1
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Under revision.
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