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QUESTION LIST #16:

 

  1. Is America the Babylon of Scriptures?

  2. What is the so-called "Recovery Version" of the Bible

  3. "...but we shall all be changed" (1Cor 15:51): Is this some kind of Rapture???

  4. Rebuttal to a Pre-Trib Rapturist

  5. A mocker of God answered; Witnessing to a Heathen

  6. An Atheist ignorantly says that the Bible is copied from Pagan myths

  7. Is "Christian Identity" & " British Israelism" teaching, racist?

  8. Documentation that Adam of Gen 2:7 was Formed after (and separate from) the creation of man and women in Gen 1:27

 

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Question #9
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Documentation that Adam of Gen 2:7 was Formed after (and separate from) the creation of man and women in Gen 1:27

 


Jan asks:

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, etc. When you're 6 years old, I guess you believe what you're told. Anyway, now that I'm 54 years old, I have a question that's ALWAYS bothered me. To this day, I have not had anyone give me an explanation that makes sense.

Adam and Eve where the first two people on this earth (correct?). They had two sons, Cain and Abel. Here's where it gets sticky. Who did Cain and Abel "mate" with, if there were no other women. Eve? If so, isn't that incest?

Jan

 


Answer:

Hi Jan:

I'm sorry but Adam and Eve were NOT the first two people on the planet. All races (white, brown, black...) Were CREATED on the sixth day. Adam was FORMED on the day after the Seventh Day of rest. See: Mankind; two separate 'creation events'

Cain married a woman from the sixth day creation that he found in the Land of Nod. But Seth married his sister; this was not yet a sin, for the incest laws were not yet given by God. (Abel was murdered by Cain before he had reproduced, thus he is not reckoned in the genealogies).

I supply the below couple paragraphs that document that the sixth day CREATION is different than the ‘eighth day’ FORMING of Adam. Bear in mind that adam, in the Hebrew, means ‘man’; thus mankind is ‘adamkind’.

Differences between the two ‘‘creation events':
Adam and Eve were not the first people on the earth. The CREATION event in [Gen 1:27] is different that the FORMING of Adam [Gen 2:7] in the Garden of God (Garden of Eden).
In Genesis chapter One

 

In Genesis chapter Two

 

In [Gen chpt. 1] they are CREATED. In [Gen 2] Adam is FORMED (an entirely different word and purpose).
In [Gen 1] they are created male and female at the same time. In [Gen 2] Adam is formed some time before Eve.
In [Gen 1] they are told to multiply. In [Gen 2] no such command is given (Adam's family was told to multiple after the flood (Noah told in Gen 9:1).
In [Gen 1] the people were hunter/fishers. In [Gen 2] Adam was a farmer.
In [Gen 1] the animals were wild animals and the plants were wild plants.  In [Gen 2] they were domestic animals and crop plants. Adam named these.
In [Gen 1] there is no rain. In [Gen 2] God made the rain.
In [Gen 1] the creation was completed. BUT AFTER THAT, in [Gen 2] God saw that He did NOT HAVE A MAN TO TILL THE GROUND (farmer). So God FORMED Adam.
But probably the most obvious is that in Gen 1 the plants and animals (wild) were created before man, in Gen 2, Adam was formed before the plants and animals (domestic). This immediately dismisses the misconception that the account in Gen 2 is merely a deeper explanation of the events in Gen 1.
 
See: Mankind; two separate 'creation events'

God bless!
Nick

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Question #8
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Is "Christian Identity" & "British Israelism" teaching, racist?

 


Mr. ‘Anonymous’ writes:

...The word of God teaches us that his elect will be gathered out of every nation, tribe, people, and tongue, this includes Jews, and other people considered to be mud people by the abomination taught by Christian Identity, British Israelism, etc. You cant get to heaven by swimming upstream, and Jesus does not rent out motorboats to help you get up the stream.

 


Answer:

Dear ‘Anonymous,’ you wrote:

“and other people considered to be mud people by the abomination taught by Christian Identity, British Israelism, etc.”
The so-called Christian Identity and British Israelism have been assailed and slandered by the fascist liemongering Jewish AntiDefamation Leage (ADL) for obvious reasons.

British Israelism and Christian Identity (so named by it’s influential detractors) teach that the Ten ‘Lost’ Tribes of Israel migrated north and west (as prophesied) and settled Europe (hence: British Israelism) and later populated the Americas. Thus the true Israel peoples of the Bible are now found in the west, not in Palestine (Israel). They will not be in the Israel of the region Palestine until Jesus Christ returns at His Second Advent and cleanses the land Jerusalem and Zion of the antichrist and his minions (who will, and are even now, hijacking the land Israel and the identity of “God’s chosen”. God’s “chosen people,” if that is what you like to call them, are among the Christian Nations of Great Britain and America (Ephraim and Manasseh, Joseph’s children and receivers of the blessing from Isaac [Gen 48:11-22].), spreading the Gospel to the world as Christ commanded: “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15).

This of course causes some discomfort for the ‘pirate’ so-called Jews residing in the modern day country of Israel who are Jesus Christ deniers. For if the Israel peoples are not in Israel today, who are those who CLAIM to be Israel in Palestine today?

ANSWER:
Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. (KJV)
The Jewish global lobby has found some success at discrediting any teaching that identifies their commandeering of “God’s chosen” status. They do this by lying. They accomplish this by people like you that spread their lies, and the uninformed believe the lies and hyperbole because it is in ‘print.’

The “Ten Tribes” teaching does not call any people, Mud people, this is a lie from the Jewish ADL and her political and spiritual agentures and Christian traitors.

The “Ten Tribes” teaching does not teach that black people or ANY race is less than human, this is a lie from the Jewish ADL and her political and spiritual agentures and Christian traitors.

The “Ten Tribes” teaching does not teach that white people are superior to any other race, this is a lie from the Jewish ADL and her political and spiritual agentures and Christian traitors.

The “Ten Tribes” teaching does not teach that ALL so-called Jews are Kenites, this is a lie from the Jewish ADL and her political and spiritual agentures and Christian traitors.

The “Ten Tribes” teaching does not teach that Adam was the first white man, this is a lie from the Jewish ADL and her political and spiritual agentures and Christian traitors.

The “Ten Tribes” teaching does Not teach racism and is Not represented by White Racist organizations that have corrupted the Ten Tribes teaching, this is a lie from the Jewish ADL and her political and spiritual agentures and Christian traitors. (The ADL shadow-finances many inept racist organizations so as to exploit them as mainstream for their (ADL’s) own means.)

People will remain ignorant and believe these Internationalist Jewish lies as long as they allow themselves to be informed from those (ADL) who perpetuate the lies in the first place. The truth is out there, seek it; the truth is in the Bible, seek it. To learn what true "Ten Tribes Teaching" teaches, see: The re-formation of Israel in the west. Israel's migrations to "the appointed place."

Nick

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Question #7
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An Atheist ignorantly says that the Bible is copied from Pagan myths

 


Don states: 

Most Biblical scholars agree that much of the Hebrew Old Testament was based on the legends of ancient Sumeria. In this article, the story of humankind's creation is explored in the parallels between the Sumerian legends of the garden, Dilmum, and the Hebrew garden of Eden.

The Hebrew account of the Garden of Eden is well known to most people however facts point to the core of that popular Hebrew story as having been lifted straight from Sumerian legend. And the story may well have roots dating back long before the Sumerian civilization.

A goddess of Sumeria, Ninhursag, also known as "exalted lady" is given the credit for bringing the green plants to the earth and for creating humans. This ancient "Mother Nature" brought to life a place called Dilmun, reputed as the true Paradise of the Gods. Many scholars, Zecharia Sitchin among them, believe that this Dilmum -if not the original garden- was at least the basis from which the Hebrews scholars borrowed in forming their scriptural stories of Eden....


Answer:

(Don is a fine example of "a little knowledge is dangerous."  And also the folly of those whom have no faith.)


Uh, excuse me, Don:

        Do you really believe the error- laced article you wrote, or are you just a predatory atheist trying to mislead a weak among-the-flock Christian?  No true Christian would pay attention to the filth you just posted about our Lord’s written Word. Perhaps you posted it here in error, go find an atheist forum to post it on, atheists will believe anything BUT the truth. You wrote: “Most Biblical scholars agree that much of the Hebrew Old Testament was based on the legends of ancient Sumeria.”

        Now Don, come-on, don’t be absurd, “Most Biblical scholars” deny that the Bible is the Holy Spirit inspired Word of Almighty God?  That is what you are in essence saying with your false statement above.  Don, don’t be foolish!

        You also ignorantly wrote: “In this article, the story of humankind's creation is explored in the parallels between the Sumerian legends of the garden, Dilmum, and the Hebrew garden of Eden. ”

        Yes, Don, the myths and false regions do closely parallel God’s Word, but they corrupt God’s truth and the true Garden of Eden events. Why, Don? Because the Sumerian legends were taken to Sumeria by Cain after his expulsion. Cain corrupted God’s Word, commands and histories. The pagan religions that you speak of even have ‘dieties’ that are perversions of Adam and Eve. For instance, Anu, Ea and Murdoch are ancient Babylonian ‘dieties,’ but they are simply the corrupted form of Adam (Anu), Eve (Ea), and satan (Murdoch). Cain started the corrupt religions in rebellion to God.

        Don, all major corrupt religions have a “Garden of God” with a man and woman, a struggle between two sons, and a “Great Flood” wherein a man and his family were saved. This is a testament to the reality of God’s Word, for while all the corrupt religions have these stories, they all contradict each other. They were all taken, and corrupted, for the true event that is contained in God’s Word.

        In other words, Don, the corrupted religions copied the truth from Eden and perverted it, NOT Eden copying the pagan myths and placing them in the Bible. It’s kind of like which came first, the chicken or the egg? Well, the chicken came first, of course, for God created them with their ability to reproduce. Likewise, the truth came first, then foul spirited men like you perverted it.

        Sumeria is in Mesopotamia (the land between the rivers), it is just north of the dead city “Erech” which is thought to be the Biblical city of Enoch that Cain builded (approx 3800 b.c.) and named after his son Enoch (Gen 4:17). Cain went there (Nod), found a wife and set-up a corrupted religion against Jehovah that not only denied Jehovah, but made gods out of His creation (Adam & Eve) and even deified (made a god out of) satan! Not, some 6,000 years later, you come to a Christian Website and perpetuate Cain’s lies against God.

        Satan always corrupts truth (Jn 8:44). Even the ancient Greek mythical heroes were perversions of Biblical personalities, i.e., the Greek Hercules is the Biblical Samson corrupted.....

Educate yourself, son, then write. (In that order)

God bless, in Jesus Christ’ name!
Nick

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Question #6
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A mocker of God answered: Witnessing to a Heathen

 

 

Mr. "B" writes:

When God speaks to the heart of the christian, does he sound like Elvis or Howdy Doody?

 


Answer:

(Our first impulse was to answer this guy with Christian righteous indignation, but then we thought better of it and decided to use this as an opportunity to share the Gospel with him.  People tend to hear you out when you are replying to their statements.)

Mr. (Or Ms.) B.:

I will answer your question, but I fear that it will all be just so much silliness to you. For as the Word declares: “But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty” (1 Cor 1:27).

Nevertheless, lest I judge you unfairly, I will give you the humble opinion of one Christian – myself.

God 'speaks' to the heart of a Christian in that He guides that Christian into a decision or motivates him/her through inspiration and/or conscience to do/not do a thing that is in accordance with God's will. Call it spiritual guidance, if you will.

This ‘speaking to the heart,’ or also referred to as ‘laying upon the heart’ is within not without. The heart (a euphemism for mind) is not an organ of hearing, thus the manner of communication is not audible but mental, heard from within.

The problem, of course, arises when one claims to have heard that which God has not sent. Therein lies certain danger of deception. But with prayer and faith a Christian can just feel deep down inside that they should/should not do a certain thing. It is through the Holy Spirit of God that this communication/interaction takes place.

In the Old Testament times, in the beginning, God walked with man and communicated with Him naturally (as with Adam, Eve, Cain, Noah...), but then later in the Old Testament God communicated with His people through the priests and prophets. Man of course disobeyed God at every turn until God left of communicating with His man. This is the inter-Testament years (between the last book of the Old Testament and the first book of the New Testament.

Then God saw that His children were wholly corrupt (once again) and had fallen hopelessly into idolatry and corrupt religion. Man, once again, had become worthy of nothing but death, the worst kind of death, death eternal, death of a soul.

But God did not want to have to destroy that which He loved, so He came to earth in the flesh as a man. This Man is known to us as Jesus Christ of Nazareth. It was He that would take away the sins of His children and restore the dead to life (I speak of the eternal death and life of a soul in the lake of Fire).

So for three and a half years in the first century A.D. God dwelt with man once again (though Christ lived 33 years, His Ministry was three and half). God had to take on a flesh body because He (God) is spirit and we are in a different realm (flesh). Thus, once again spoke mouth to ear to His man as He had back in the days of old.

But man rejected God in Christ Jesus, and slew Him. The Kingdom was in abeyance (not yet) and the end time was reserved to a time appointed (our near future).

Immediately after Christ’s resurrection, God once again dealt with man through man. That is to say, that the promise that Christ Jesus made of the sending of the comforter was accomplished. This is the Holy Spirit of God. It was this most Holy Spirit that drave the Apostles to write the New Testament (God to man to man in writing).

Regarding the Old Testament inspiration, God spoke one on one with Moses who wrote the Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible), and as for the Prophetical Books (Isaiah, Jeremiah, &c.), God spoke through His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, to the Prophets as to what to write.

Now, today, in our times, even from since after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, God speaks to the 'heart' (mind/intellect) of His true believers. These true believers are called Christians, for they believe upon Christ, they believe upon God. All other religions on the planet are false and corrupt, either fabricated of corrupted away from the truth. The natural progression of the Old Testament religion of the Hebrews is Christianity. Christianity is the fulfillment of the promises of the Old Testament. Christianity is found in the New Testament (New Covenant, New Promise, New Contract). Judaism is the corruption of the Old Testament religion of the Hebrews. Islam is a lie from Mecca in 622 A.D. Buddhism and Hinduism are lies as well. Satan is the father of lies and the patriarch of false religion.

But it is impossible for me, as a Christian, to explain to you, and unbeliever, to the point that you would believe me that God communicates and fellowships in and upon a Christian. When a Christian prays he/she feels the presence of the Holy Spirit, the presence of God. It is not like a slap on the back, it is just a felling of His presence. This I cannot make you feel or even believe in. I just know ‘cause I know, you know what I mean?

Is it safe to guess that you are a heathen, Mr. B.? If you are (indicated by your mocking of the Lord) then this will all have sounding like the delusions of a Delude. But then, even though you believe not in Him, God believes in you, God spoke of people such as you:

1 Cor 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (KJV)

1 Cor 1:21-25
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (KJV)
My advice to you: You had better be right real sure that God isn’t, because if He is He will ask you one day why you mocked Him that had made you.

And of a surety God is, for even His name declares it. God is the I AM:
Exod 3:13-15
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (KJV)
And Jesus is Lord and God:
John 8:56-58
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (KJV)
Would be to God, Mr. B., that if just even for a moment you would know and feel the presence of the Lord as a Christian does. You would then convert on the spot instantly! But only God can turn a heart. Ask Him to touch yours with faith -- He will. He won't do it with great theatrics, He isn't going to plop down in your living room and show you a couple of miracles, He doesn't operate that way; And He might not do it for a long time, but He promised that all would find Him whom first sought Him out.

Luke 11:9-10 (Jesus speaking)
9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.  (KJV)

I'll say a prayer for you if you wouldn't terribly mind.

God bless!
Nick

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Question #5
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Rebuttal to a Pre-Trib Rapturist

 

        In a recent internet correspondence with a Rapturist a very long montage of taken-out-of-context Scriptures were strung together by him that supposedly explained this man's Rapture beliefs.  Below we have excerpted the man's letter and answered some of his inconsistencies.  

        In reading his 'points' and the Biblical answer against them it becomes abundantly clear why these people (Rapturists) are so wholly lost and deceived when it comes to understanding end-time Biblical prophecy.  The whole of their beliefs regarding their so-called Rapture is nothing more than a house built upon the sand that shall be washed away at the true Second Advent of Christ, when He, Jesus Christ, shall return to this earth and promptly deposit their antichrist (false christ) into the pit.  It is then that the Rapturist shall shamefully join the rest of the world as she fulfills the prophecy:

Rev 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?  (KJV)

        Below is our rebuttal to some of the man's points.  At times he seems to be 'arguing' against those who hold that there is no Rapture contained in the Scriptures, and at other times he seems to be 'arguing' with those Rapturists who differ from his particular Rapture faction; in other words, he is what is called a Pre-Trib Rapturist who is debating relative timing with a Post-Trib Rapturist.  Of course they are both wrong, it is just that one is more wrong than the other.  We did not post his long errant letter as we do not post false doctrine here, lest anyone happen on it and think it be the truth.  Lord knows there are too many of false doctrine Rapture Websites as it is.  We do not want to feed into the deception by mistake.


Our reply to the Pre-Tribulation Rapture believer (David):

Hello David:

        I welcome your rebuttals, and fully support your right to believe in whatever end-time scenario that you choose.

        That having been said, allow me to explain some of the things that you see as contradictions.  For they are not contradictions, they only appear as contradictions when one tries to insert a monumental event (Rapture) into the Bible when it is not there.

David said:

“ post-anything rapture [referring to a Post-Tribulation Rapture view over a Pre-Tribulation Rapture view] flies in the face of many scriptures which clearly demand a coming of Christ that could occur at any moment.”

AND:

“To be watching and waiting for Christ if antichrist must appear first would be like...”
        But David, on an individual level, the day of Christ is at hand for everyone.  If you walk outside your door today and get run over by a truck, guess what?  It is the day of the Lord for you, for you shall see Him that day.  Yes David, Christians must always be ready.  No contradiction there.

David said:
“That the coming which Christ's bride longs for will bring the resurrection of the dead and the transformation of the living into new bodies is clear not only from 1 Thessalonians 4, but from other passages such as...”
        Dave, you seem to forget all those whom died prior to this event.  God’s plan includes those who pass away before the end-time as well as it pertains to those whom are alive at His coming.

David said:
“Nor does the following from Christ fit a post-trib coming: "Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh" (Mt 24:44).”
        I believe I covered that above, regarding the individual.  However, even in the end-times, when Christ does return at His Second Advent, many shall think it an hour that He wouldn’t come.  The reason being that they shall think that He ALREADY CAME!  They shall think that the antichrist is the true Christ.  Thus the reason for all Jesus’ many warnings about not worshipping the first one who comes claiming to be Jesus Christ.
Matt 24:24-26
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he
[the false christ antichrist] is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.  (KJV)

&c...

David said:

“ It is absurd to imagine that anyone who had survived the Great Tribulation and had seen the prophesied events (the plagues and judgment poured out upon earth; antichrist's image in the temple; the mark imposed to buy and sell; all killed who would not worship antichrist's image; the three witnesses in Jerusalem killed, then resurrected and caught up to heaven; Jerusalem surrounded by the world's armies, etc.), and who had counted the foretold 1,260 days, could possibly imagine at that hour that Christ was not about to return!”

        David, you bring up a great many topics in your above statement. May I take them by the numbers and offer BRIEF explanation that may be later expounded upon if any one of them is a stumbling block?

“It is absurd to imagine that anyone who had survived the Great Tribulation”ANSWER: The Great Tribulation is deception, not slaughter.  Those looking for slaughter shall be deceived by the false christ antichrist and his false peace and safety.

“the mark imposed to buy and sell”ANSWER: The mark of the beast is not yet fully comprehended.  Even you will agree that we simply do not know if it is a literal mark or a spiritual mark (or both) bore by the deceived masses.

“all killed who would not worship antichrist's image”ANSWER: Yes, Dave, many shall be killed, but they will killed as Heretics for denying the false messiah antichrist whom the world esteems as the true Messiah of God. This is not unimaginable, for how true Christians many did the Catholic Church burn during the Dark Ages as Heretics. Can’t happen again, you say? Don’t you believe it! For Christ Himself said that it would: “They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.” (John 16:2)

“the three witnesses in Jerusalem killed”ANSWER: I’m sure that you meant Two Witnesses, i.e., Rev 11:3-12

“then resurrected and caught up to heaven”ANSWER: Oh yea, Dave, the world will get a wake-up call at that moment for sure.  However, that happens ONE LITERAL HOUR before the Second Advent of Jesus Christ, i.e. “And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and...” (Rev 11:13)

“Jerusalem surrounded by the world's armies”ANSWER: You are out of sequence with this statement. We can discuss it later if you like.

“could possibly imagine at that hour that Christ was not about to return”ANSWER:  Dave, they will not imagine that Christ can come to them at that time BECAUSE THEY THINK THAT HE IS ALREADY THERE!  That is the only time a Christian could ever fathom that Christ will not return.  Below is the situation at hand just prior to the Second Advent, and it is the one single reason that they shall think He cometh not:

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day
[the day of the Lord, the Second Advent] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV)

David said:

“ Christ says He will come at a time of peace and prosperity when even His bride will not expect Him”

Explained above.

David said:
“ Yet Scripture says that the Messiah comes when the world is almost destroyed by war, famine and God's judgment and Israel is about to go down in defeat”
        Does it really? You confuse the first beast of revelation chapter 13 with the second beast of that chapter.  We can expound on that deeper if you would like.

David said:
“ How could Christ come from heaven to execute judgment upon earth "with ten thousands of his saints [i.e., multitudes]" (Jude 14) if He had not first taken them to heaven? Here we have another reason for a pretrib rapture.
        Dave, you make the same mistake that the Rapture Churches make today.  You assume that the whole Bible and the whole plan of God revolves around ONLY THOSE ALIVE AT HIS COMING.  What will you have us do with the Billions who died before the Second Advent?  What would you do with the great multitudes that died in Christ in times past?  It is they whom are the returning army with our Lord.  We believers are still on earth, and when Christ returns with His army we whom are still alive on the planet whom believe upon Christ shall be changed (transformed to our spiritual bodies without tasting of a flesh death for Judgment to eternal life), while the unbelievers shall be slain (and thus enter their spiritual bodies for Judgment to death).

        I an interested in continuing this, but could we focus on just maybe one or two subjects at a time to facilitate a better coverage of each and a shorter response?

        And yes David, I agree with your statement: "Come Lord Jesus," but much has to happen before it is yet time for that.  Let's not let our guard down in the last hour like the five foolish virgins shall do.


God bless!

Nick
----------------------

Editor's Note:  David never responded.

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Question #4
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"...but we shall all be changed" (1Cor 15:51): Is this some kind of Rapture???

 


Internet correspondence with M.:

Hi Nick,

There will be a rapture irregardless of whether it is pre, mid, post trib. You cannot ignore the scripture that was presented to you in the study.

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE
shall ALL be changed,

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Notice that it says he shall gather the elect and it will be the lost that sleep.

 


Answer:

Hello M.:

        You error is apparent in your final summation sentence where you said: "Notice that it says he shall gather the elect and it will be the lost that sleep."  We shall cover that quite in-depth in our below reply.  But let me just rThank-you for taking the time to explain and defend your particular Rapture beliefs.  For in doing so you give opportunity to clear up misconceptions that are keeping others in deception.  Though we know that you are being sincere, you have just been taught falsely in the many Rapture churches of these end-times that have supplanted traditions of men where sound Biblical doctrine should be.

        I think it all comes down to what one means when they say “Rapture.”  Since the term is not in the Scriptures, we must guess what each other means, every man placing his own spin on the term.

        Now I understand all the “Harpadzo,” “Rapere” stuff, which I feel feeds into the great confusion.  [Note:  Harpadzo is the Greek word that means to violently seize by force, it is this that they claim is their Rapture.  The word Rapere is a French word and they claim that this somehow supports their Rapture.  By manipulation these foreign language words they have been told that the word Rapture is in fact in the Scriptures, and that it takes on some secondary meaning that they (the Rapture Doctors) attributes to it.  They believe this.  It's all smoke and mirrors!]  See: The Rapture Theory; What Does God's Word Say About It?

        I do not argue the point that Christ Jesus shall return to this earth and change His believers in a twinkling of an eye into their spiritual bodies without them tasting of flesh death.  I also do not argue the point that Christ Jesus shall return to this earth and slay the unfaithful and the evil (thus transforming them into their spiritual bodies by the death of the flesh).  For it is written that “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed” (1 Cor 15:51).

        I run into problems with ‘Rapturists’ over the relative timing of these events and the sequence of them.  All ‘Rapturists’ (Pre, Post, Mid, Two-Stage... Tribulation Rapturists) place a significant period of time between these two events (the ‘bad’ dying, and the ‘good’ being transformed without dying). Herein lies the problem.

        Those ‘two’ events happen at the same time, or at best, are separated by minutes, not months or even days.  Observe the Scripture you supplied bearing in mind my above comments: 

1 Cor 15:50-52
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep
[die], but we shall all be changed [transform into spiritual bodies],
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
[i.e., at the Last Trump]. (KJV)

        Verse 52 both sets the timing of the event and also causes some confusion regarding one segment of the verse. The timing is clear “at the last trump.” That is pretty strait forward, the last trump, that means there are no more after it, it is the end.

        The confusion comes in regarding the statement “and the dead shall be raised incorruptible.”  It is widely regarded in the rapture Churches, though errantly, that these dead are ‘good’ people that died in times past, and that this is them raising from their graves to joint the Rapturists in their reward, i.e., being ‘Raptured.’  As far as I can tell, this is very consistent among Rapture beliefs regardless of whether it be pre, mid, or post tribulation Rapture doctrine.  But they err in that they seem to be unaware that when we (all) die we (all) instantly go back to the Father (Luke ch. 16), we do not remain in the grave with our rotting flesh.

        The main problem, I think, is centered around the meaning of the word “incorruptible” as it is used here.  Many suppose that this word refers to moral character, i.e., an ‘incorruptible person’ thus receiving just recompense for a life lived well and rewarded for faith in Christ by ‘going to Heaven,’ in other words, a saved person.  This is incorrect and is not at all what the word and the Scripture is referring to.  The misunderstanding of this feeds into the Rapture debate in no small degree.

Let’s look at the word in the Strong’s, and then follow-up with explanation and some Scripture:
incorruptible: Greek word #862 aphthartos (af'-thar-tos); from 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of 5351; undecaying (in essence or continuance): KJV-- not (in-, un-) corruptible, immortal.
        This word in our Scripture is referring to the flesh body verses the spiritual body.  This entire Scripture is about the change of body at the Second Advent.  In fact Apostle Paul is rather blunt when he sets the stage for this entire Scriptural truth, Paul prefaces this Scripture by telling us what it is that he is speaking of:
1 Cor 15:35-36
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: (KJV)
        Paul is not talking here about going to Heaven or going to hell, he is speaking about what happens to us when we die.  For we do not cease existing when we die, that only happens after Judgment Day when some shall perish in the Lake of Fire.  Paul uses the terms “corruption” and “incorruption” to refer to the flesh body and the spiritual body.  I know that the word “corruption” carries a secondary meaning in our modern English language, as in "a corrupt politician," thus the common confusion.

        Corruption of the body means decay, the rotting of the flesh back to the dust whence it came.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It was prophesied of Jesus Christ that His body would not see corruption, His body would not decompose (and it did not, for it stayed not in the grave):
Ps 16:10 (speaking of Jesus Christ)
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [the grave]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption [decomposition]. (KJV)

Hell: Hebrew word #7585 she'owl (sheh-ole'); or sheol (sheh-ole'); from 7592; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates: KJV-- grave, hell, pit.

Let’s reexamine our Scripture regarding this “corruption”:
1 Cor 15:42
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption
[flesh that rots]; it is raised in incorruption [spirit that is immortal - unless God blots it out AFTER Judgment day]:
(KJV)

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
[because flesh rots back to dust]; neither doth corruption [flesh] inherit incorruption [immortality - un-decomposing, un-perishable]. (KJV)
        What these Scriptures are saying is that, in the first Scripture (1 Cor 15:42), we die and our body corrupts in the grave, then we resurrect in a spiritual body that does not decay.  (This happens at the moment of the individual's death.).  In the second Scripture (1 Cor 15:50), that flesh can not be in the realm of God (for God is spirit and not flesh — Jn 4:24), and that a temporal flesh body cannot live eternal.  There two bodies within us each, a flesh body and a spiritual body.  When we die our flesh corrupts back to dust but our soul and spirit live on in our spiritual body (unless and until God Judges it to death at Judgment Day): 
1 Cor 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption
[flesh]; it is raised in incorruption [spirit]:
43 It is sown in dishonour
[flesh]; it is raised in glory [spirit]: it is sown in weakness [flesh]; it is raised in power [spirit]:
44 It is sown a natural body
[flesh]; it is raised a spiritual body [spirit]. There is a natural body [flesh], and there is a spiritual body [spirit]. (KJV)
        None of this has to do with ‘making it to Heaven,’ for even though the ‘evil’ among dead do rise, as do the ‘good’ people who die, some rise only to be judged to hell (Lake of Fire), and some rise to eternal life in Heaven.  This determination is not made until Judgment Day, and all are in spiritual bodies at that time (God will not punish anyone till the have been fairly judged and sentenced).  A spiritual body is eternal EXCEPT and UNTIL God destroys it in the Lake of Fire (commonly, though errantly, referred to as hell): 
Rev 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell
[this is what we call the grave - to die] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
[this is what we errantly call hell]. (KJV)
        One last note: The Rapturist fabricates a second Judgment Day (called by them, the Bema Seat Judgment) to accommodate their fabricated second Second Advent (Rapture).  There is only one Judgment Day, there is only one more Advent of Christ.  There is no Rapture before the Second Advent of Christ.  You may call the gathering back to Christ at the Second Advent a Rapture is you like, but in addition to being inaccurate, it confuses the heck out of everyone and everything.

See: The Rapture Theory; What Does God's Word Say About It? 


God bless
Nick

----------------

Editors Note:  M. did not respond; we hope that she took some of this to heart.

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Question #3
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What is the so-called "Recovery Version" of the Bible

 


Kristi asks:

Can someone tell me what this "Recovery Version Bible" is about or if anyone has ever heard of this or it's author? For some reason it just sounds wrong, don't know why and I could be wrong.

The reason I ask is I like to enter contests so I go to some contests message boards which also has a freebies listing. I try to share Jesus when I can with my friends there and I would like to tell them if this bible is ok or not. It has been nagging at me and I just want to make sure. 

Thanks,
Kristi

 


Answer:

        The so-called "Recovery Version" of the Bible is a 'Commentary Bible' written by and used by a sect of Rapturists who call themselves "The Church." They are based at Living Stream Ministry, Anaheim, and have braches worldwide.

         This 'Bible' version is a corruption written by one 'Watchmen Nee' and his sidekick 'Witness Lee.'  They are two Oriental gentlemen who teach the Rapture lie and have written Rapture into their new Bible.  Witness Nee is claimed to have received further revelation from God and he placed this "recovered" wisdom into his new Bible; hence the name "Recovery Version."

        As of last year (2000) they only had corrupted the New Testament, but even then work on the Old Testament was under way.

        It is satan's handiwork, as is the false rapture theories, beware!  If they need a new Bible to teach their pet theories, then their pet theories are offensive to God.  Such is the Rapture hoax.

        Below are a couple of trailers for their new version bible:.  Observe how they use the Holy Scriptures as a platform to introduce their own corrupted commentaries that pervert the Word of God:

CAUTION - deceitful sales pitch below for the "Recovery Bible"!

The below excerpted from: The New Testament Recovery Version, promotional package, Witness Lee, 1985, 1991. Living Stream Ministry, Anaheim, CA.

"A Brief Explanation
Throughout the centuries, translations of the Bible have steadily improved. In general, each new translation inherits from previous ones and opens the way for later ones. While a new translation derives help from its predecessors, it should go further. The Recovery Version of the New Testament, following the precedent set by the major authoritative English versions and taking these versions as reference, not only incorporates lessons learned from an examination of others' practices but also attempts to avoid biases and inaccurate judgments. This version, frequently guided by other versions, attempts to provide the best utterance for the revelation in the divine Word, that it may be expressed in the English language with the greatest accuracy."

"A Proper Understanding
Translating the Bible depends not only on an adequate comprehension of the original language but also on a proper understanding of the divine revelation in the holy Word. Throughout the centuries the understanding of the divine revelation possessed by the saints has always been based upon the light they receive, and this understanding has progressed steadily. The consummation of this understanding forms the basis of this translation and its New Testament footnotes. Hence, this translation and the accompanying footnotes could be called the "crystallization" of the understanding of the divine revelation which the saints everywhere have attained to in the past two thousand years. It is our hope that the Recovery Version will carry on the heritage that it has received and will pave the way for future generations."

"Features of the Recovery Version
The subject provided at the beginning of each book and the outline of each book take the historical facts as their base and express the spiritual meaning in each book. In the New Testament, the footnotes stress the revelation of the truth, the spiritual light and the supply of life more than history, geography, and persons. The Old Testament with footnotes should be available in 2001. The cross references lead not only to other verses with the same expressions and facts but also to other matters related to the spiritual revelation in the divine Word."

"...published by Living Stream Ministry. The product of over 10 years of extensive research, the New Testament Recovery Version is based on the consummate understanding of the divine revelation. Truths that have been recovered steadily and progressively since Martin Luther's time are brought together in this unique version of the New Testament."

"Bibles for America (BFA) is a non-profit organization that distributes free Recovery Version Bibles as well as Christian literature throughout the United States. Its hope is that people would "come to the full knowledge of the truth" according to God's desire in 1 Timothy 2:4. Bibles for America primarily offers the Recovery Version of the New Testament."

Be careful with this corrupt work!

God bless!

Nick

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Question #2
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Is America the Babylon of Scriptures?

 


David (different David) writes:

Hey Nick, I've been doing some studying and researching Revelations where it talks about the harlot that sits atop seven hills (or mountains) and I have always thought that that verse is talking about Roman Catholic church (or Rome).  As of late I starting to think that possibly it could be America and that the hills or mountains are really the seven continents.  That is not what I believe a 100% but just curious and will continue to study and research.  Oh yeah, really appreciated your in-depth study of the rapture doctrine.  I was never really for sure about a rapture but leaned more towards the post-trib rapture doctrine before I know what I know now.  Do you think America could be the beast that was to be wounded?  I do know that there is more going on behind the scenes with this attack and Satan is behind it all and ushering in his New World Order right before our eyes. 

God bless.
David

 


Answer:

Hi Dave:

        For centuries people have determined that this 'seven mountains' is Rome; for, they say, Rome is built on an area composed of seven hills.  But by that reckoning Jerusalem herself could not be ruled out, for she is built upon a series of hills, how many were originally there is obscured because many have been leveled off and filled in over the millennia.  So then, if we were to take the Scripture as seven literal hills we could locate several possible locations worldwide.

        We do not feel that this is the correct interpretation of the prophecy, and as we shall show below, Scripture gave us much hint as to where this woman (whore) sits.  

The "woman" (the whore) is the one-world politico-religious system of the antichrist.  It is Mystery Babylon.

Rev 17:4-5
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written,
[i.e., her name is -] MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  (KJV)

        She rides (controls) the world.  There are two beasts in Revelation chapter 13, the second is the antichrist (satan) but the first is his (antichrist's) politico-religious system, and it is global once fully in place:

the prophecy of the first beast (the 'New World Order' - NWO)  

Rev 13:1-4
1 And I
1 stood upon the sand of the sea 2, and saw a beast 3 rise up out of the sea 2, having seven heads 4 and ten horns, 5 and upon his horns ten crowns, 6 and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 7
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon
8 gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his
3 heads as it were wounded to death; 9 and his deadly wound was healed: 10  and all the world wondered after the beast. 3
4 And they
11 worshipped the dragon 8 which gave power unto the beast: 3 and they 11 worshipped the beast, 3 saying, Who is like unto the beast? 3 who is able to make war with him? 12  (KJV)

scripture notes                                                                
1   
I - John, who was taken forward to the Millennium and shown events future-yet.
2    sand of the sea - 'edge of humanity'.  Waters are peoples in the prophecies of the book of Revelation, i.e., "...The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues" (Rev 17:15).     
3    a beast - the first beast of two beasts in Rev chpt. 13; this is a political beast, being the one-world system (NWO).  The second beast is antichrist/dragon/satan (the same one entity).  There are two beasts in Rev chapter 13:  "and I beheld another beast..." (Rev 13:11).     
4
    
seven heads - seven regions or territories of influence, seven geographical regions of the confederacy, liken it representative of all seven continents.  7 = completeness.     
5     ten horns - ten centers of power, ten confederated magistrates.  The 'capitals' in the seven heads.  'Horns' always symbolize power and rule (see Dan 7:20-21).    
6
    
ten crowns - ten men, ten rulers, ten kings (most likely ten Kenites).    
7
   
name of blasphemy - the blasphemy is that this beast (the one-world system) shall eventually worship and pay honors to a false god (satan/antichrist).  "...with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory...." (Dan 11:37-39).     
8    the dragon - the antichrist/dragon/satan (the same one entity), this is the second beast.  The dragon (satan/antichrist) controls the first beast (the NWO), first from his place of holding (in Heaven - Rev 12:7-8), then, after he is cast out unto the earth (Rev 12:9), he rules from earth as the antichrist, as the false god of 2nd Thes 2:4.    
9
    
wounded to death - war or near war.  This first beast is a global system, a confederacy of the world's powers.  The 'deadly wound' to a beast such as this is a political blow (civil war, secession attempt by one of the heads or horns?) that destabilizes the NWO.    
10
   
was healed - union strengthened, rebellion put down, global unity restored.  This is accomplished by satan/dragon/antichrist when he arrives on the earth in Rev 12:9.    
11
   
they - "all the world" from the preceding verse (verse 3).     
12    who is able to make war with him?they (all the world) shrink at the irony of a one-world system, there is no way to resist it, for it is universal.  There can be no option to a one-world system, there is only one government, one banking system, one food distribution system, one school system with one curriculum, one media, one law, and one religion.  They would ask: "Who can resist, who can fight it?"  Answer: God's Elect, through His grace and the power of the Holy Spirit! 
                                                                            

        This whole-world one-world system begins politically by the hands and operations of mankind (though motivated by satan/antichrist from his place of holding) and evolves into a solid whole-world Confederacy, becomes wholly a global Communistic government, and then finally when satan is cast out of his place of holding in Heaven (Rev12:9) as the antichrist, it manifests itself into a pure, albeit wholly corrupted, planetary Theocracy (God ruled, or ruled by a god figure).  The whole planet and every citizen in bondage and enslaved by satan (as the antichrist) through deception and lies.

        But getting back to the woman, she sits upon the seven regions of the world, which indicates her supremacy over the entire globe:

Rev 17:9
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (KJV)

Below we see that this woman sits upon the peoples, all the peoples (the sea — the waters = the peoples):

Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. (KJV)

Mystery Babylon is that woman:

Rev 14:8
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication
[religious adultery]. (KJV)

Scripture then tells us that the woman is the great city (Jerusalem):

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV)

We see Jerusalem referred to as that great city even in the Old Testament:

Jer 22:8
8 And many nations shall pass by this city, and they shall say every man to his neighbour, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this great city? (KJV)

Finally, Scriptures nails down, without any room for doubt, the exact location and thus the identity of the great city:

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (KJV)

        And after the end of this age, after the great Judgment Day, after the old things are done away with, after all evil and evil doers are cast into the Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as 'going to hell'), the new Heaven and new earth (commonly referred to as Heaven) is identified as the great city Jerusalem (rejuvenated and with God present):

Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (KJV)

        America is not Babylon!  America is the greatest Christian nation existing, had not God so blessed America (and her brother nation Great Britain) the world would not have any Christian nations left.  This was done by God's good pleasure and His design, we are strong and feared militarily worldwide, and because of that, Christianity has been allowed to exist globally.  if you remove Great Britain and America from the history of the world, Christianity would have long ago become not.  But God was and is always in control.  

        Sadly though, the end-time Jerusalem shall be Babylon, God's holy city wholly trodden under and defiled; for it is there that the antitype to the 'King of Babylon,' i.e., (antichrist/satan/dragon/serpent/devil/son of perdition/man of sin/ &c. — many names, same entity — see Gen 3:15, Rev 12:9, Rev 20:2, &c.) shall sit and rule the world:

II Th 2:2-4
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ
[the Second Advent] is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come
[the Second Advent], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition [the antichrist];
4 Who
[the antichrist] opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV)

        There is only one place on the planet that would contain the "the temple of God," that is Jerusalem, that great city.  For satan shall sit there imitating the Lord (as the antichrist, the instead-of christ), no other place would do, for satan is vain and proud and shall seek to become as God; he will not set up some cheap temple in some second-rate city anywhere else in the world, he will reign (falsely) from Jerusalem, that great city, "shewing himself that he is God."

        In prophecy, America is Manasseh and Israel, as Britain is Ephraim and Israel in prophecy — they are brothers who received the blessings from their father Joseph (by God's approval & design), see Gen 48:8-22.  Israel is wherever the Israel peoples are.  

        In prophecy, 'Jerusalem' and 'Judah' and 'Zion' are the location of modern day Israel (in Palestine).  The reason being that the Israel peoples are not now in the modern day Israel of the Middle East, they (true Israel) are in the places whence they were scattered (America, Great Britain, &c.).  The people currently in the modern day state of Israel are not the Biblical Israel peoples, they are mostly (not all!) impostors of the house of Edom (Esau & Kenites & Khazars &c.), mixed in with some of true Judah.  They are mostly (not all!) the people spoken of below:

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. (KJV)

Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. (KJV)

        If this is something you have never studied you might enjoy: The re-formation of Israel in the west - Israel's migrations to "the appointed place," and, When was the word 'Jew' first used in the Bible versions; are modern day so-called Jews the 'chosen of God' in the Bible?

        We could have examined many more Scriptures, perhaps you will take this study forward for yourself.  I think your question was excellent and timely given the current events, thank-you for asking it.

God bless!

Nick

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Question #1
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WATCHMEN BIBLE STUDY GROUP

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