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"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." — Psalm 119:105

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QUESTION LIST #18:
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  1. The "born of the water" in John 3:5

  2. Would Adam have lived forever?

  3. Was Jesus God?

  4. Was Adam the first human?

  5. Can telling loved ones the truth now place them in spiritual danger in the Tribulation?

  6. How could the fallen angels of Gen 6 have impregnated flesh women?

  7. Who was this "Man Child" in Rev 12:5 that God took to His Throne?

  8. Who is that coming on the cloud in Rev 14:14?

  9. The Bodies and Corpses & Eagles and Vultures of Matt 24:28 and Luke 17:37

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Question #9
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The Bodies and Corpses & Eagles and Vultures of Matt 24:28 and Luke 17:37

 

 Jackie asks:
Hi:
My question is on page 15 of 33 [of the Once saved, always saved-are you so sure? study].

Luke 17:37.

And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is , thither will the eagles be gathered together. (KJV)

I looked up (body) #105, and (eagles) #4983,4982 in my Strong's, and I don't see anything about corpses or vultures.  Can you please help me? 

Thanks, Jackie

ANSWER:

Hi, you are correct about the Strong's entry. Thayer's refers to this bird as a vulture.  However, I do not recommend the Thayer's (for why, see https://watchman.news/watchman-bs-site-arcv/adulter.htm ), they just happen to be right here.  Below is the Strong's and the Thayer's definitions for the words: 

BODY:
 
Strongs:
4983  soma (so'-mah); from 4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: KJV-- bodily, body, slave.
 
Thayer's:
4983  soma- 1) the body both of men or animals
a) a dead body or corpse
b) the living body; used of animals
2) the bodies of plants and of stars (heavenly bodies)
3) is used of a (large or small) number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body; so, in the New Testament of the ekklesia
4) what casts a shadow as distinguished from the shadow itself
 

EAGLE:

Strongs:
105  aetos (ah-et-os'); from the same as 109; an eagle (from its wind-like flight): KJV-- eagle.
 
Thayer's:
105  aetos- 1) an eagle (KJV): Since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this probably refers to a vulture which resembled an eagle.
2) an eagle as a standard (for the Roman military)
 
Also, another key phase in the Scripture is "be gathered together"  This is one Greek word: 
"be gathered together"

Strongs:
1996  episunago (ep-ee-soon-ag'-o);
from 1909 and 4863; to collect upon the same place: KJV-- gather (together).
 
Thayer's:
1996  episunago-1) to gather together beside, to bring together to others who are already assembled
2) to gather together against
3) to gather together in one place
The reason that the above word is key is that Eagles do not naturally gather together.  Vultures eat in flocks, Eagles hunt alone.  Therefore these birds that gather together on the body are scavengers.  Eagles will only eat decaying carcasses when starving.
 
The whole thing has to do with context.  The 'body' is dead because birds are gathering about it.  Birds do not naturally gather upon humans.  The 'bird' is a Vulture for the reasons outlined above.  The Scripture itself is about death, so it is no stretch to determine that the bodies are dead and are being visited by a gathering of Vultures.  Read the Scripture in this context and it should flow clearly: 
Luke 17:33-37
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. (KJV)
Incidentally, Eagles do not hunt at night, they rely upon their keen eyesight which is useless at night.  For further explanation, see the section of the following study that will pop-up at The Rapture Theory; What Does God's Word Say About It?
 
My thoughts on this are that the word translated to Eagles was used in the Bible for more than one kind of bird.  In fact, it is even translated as "angel" once.

Every occurrence of the Greek word #105 in the King James Bible:  
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase [hello!] is, there will the eagles be gathered together.   (KJV)
 
Luke 17:37
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.   (KJV)
 
Rev 4:7
7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.   (KJV)
 
Rev 8:13
13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!   (KJV)
 
Rev 12:14
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.   (KJV)
According to Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia 2004 the name Eagle can and does refer to other birds:

Eagle, common name for a number of diurnal [daytime] birds of prey, some of which are the largest members of their family which also includes kites, hawks, buzzards, and certain vultures. The name eagle is somewhat loosely applied, as several of the groups are not particularly closely related to one another, and some birds called hawks are larger than some called eagles. -- © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
 

But anyway, you no doubt caught the clue in the above Scriptures?  In parallel Scriptures, in Matthew 24 our Lord said carcase (carcass by modern spelling), but in Luke 17 He said body.  There is no contradiction there, the Scriptures cannot contradict themselves, for a carcase is a body and a body is a carcase.  While a body can be alive, a carcase never can; but a body can also be dead.  Hence the additional clarification in the Matthew Scripture.
 
Therefore to call the body a living thing would be to charge the Scriptures with err when this same body is in another place called a carcase. 
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.   (KJV)
carcase Greek word #4430  ptoma (pto'-mah); from the alternate of 4098; a ruin, i.e. (specifically) lifeless body (corpse, carrion): KJV-- dead body, carcase, corpse.
So now that we definitely know that these are DEAD bodies where these birds are gathering at, that should lend the greater weight to the "Eagles" in these verses being Vultures.
 
You may follow-up with rebuttal if you wish.  I do not discourage disagreement.  Although my guess is that the above Matthew Scripture 'nailed it' for you.
 

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Question #8
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Who is that coming on the cloud in Rev 14:14?

Kimberly asks:
"Can you tell me if the described person in Rev 14:14 is satan coming as the antichrist, because later I read in Rev 19:11 and 19:16 where this describes Jesus coming. So who is that coming on the cloud in Rev 14:14?  Is this the antichrist coming  first?, then followed by Jesus later in Rev 19:11?"
ANSWER:

This One in Rev 14:14 is Jesus Christ, not antichrist.  We see the exact phrase used of Christ earlier in the book:

Rev 1:13
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.  (KJV)
 
Rev 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. (KJV)
You have to be careful not to 'add' to the Scriptures inadvertently when you read them, for you unconsciously added "coming" to the Scripture where the Scripture does not say "coming;"  i.e., you said: "So who is that coming on the cloud in Rev 14:14?", but the Scripture speaks of no one coming to Earth:
Rev 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. (KJV)
This One is in Heaven, not Earth. 
Rev 14:13-15
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.  (KJV)
The vision is in Heaven pertaining to things that are being done on the Earth PRIOR to the Second Advent:
Rev 14:13-15:1
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
 
CHAPTER 15
 
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. (KJV)
The Seven Vials are yet to be poured out, so we know that the Second Advent cannot have happened yet.
 
So, how can we be sure that He is Jesus Christ and not antichrist?  Because He does that which only Jesus can and shall do.  The Scripture that we are discussing (Rev 14:14 ff.) is actually the fulfillment of the prophecy below:
Matt 13:27-30
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.  (KJV)
Who are these Reapers?
Matt 13:37-41
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;  (KJV)
What have we left undone here? ...  Oh, OK, In the above it says that the reapers are the Angels but in Rev 14 it seems to say that Jesus does the reaping.  Does it really say that?  Observe that Jesus reaps the Earth BY (through the actions of) His Angels.  His Angels are the ones who reap MEN:
Rev 14:14-20
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand  (KJV)
So just as that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra By His angels so too shall Jesus reap the Earth By His Angels.
 
Further insight can be gleaned from Bullinger's footnotes on Rev 14:15 & 16 regarding the word "thrust" in that it is two different Greek words in the two verses.  See The Companion Bible page 1903.  The word "thrust" in verse 15 is pempo while the word "thrust" in verse 16 is ballo.  Definitions per the Strong's Concordance are as follows:

Greek word #906  ballo (bal'-lo);a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense): KJV-- arise, cast (out), X dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust. Compare 4496.
 
Greek word #3992  pempo (pem'-po); apparently a primary verb; to dispatch (from the subjective view or point of departure, whereas hiemi [as a stronger form of eimi] refers rather to the objective point or terminus ad quem, and 4724 denotes properly, the orderly motion involved), especially on a temporary errand; also to transmit, bestow, or wield: KJV-- send, thrust in.
For the differences between the two above words, see Bullinger's The Synonymous Words for "Send", "Sent".
 
Also, the term Son of Man refers to Jesus as the flesh man on Earth before His glorification, the term Son of God refers to Jesus glorified and sat down in His place in Heaven (though it is said of Jesus before He died and resurrected -- it simply denotes His agency).  Please do not confuse this as to be saying that Son of God can never be used of Christ whilst He was on the Earth in the flesh, for it is sometimes used of Him then, but always of His relation to God Himself; i.e., as a title of His (Jesus') divinity.  Whereas Son of Man is a testament to His humanity, for though He indeed being God He was also born of mankind by woman through a womb.  Hence Thomas could say to/of Him "My Lord and my God." (John 20:28).
 
Jesus' Father was God, of course; but Jesus on the Earth was also the Son of flesh man (not of a specific particular flesh man - God forbid - but of flesh humans, of mankind), i.e., a son (child) of mankind/humans.  Jesus was of Adam through Mary by genetic descent.  Jesus in Heaven is God, for did He not tell us "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).  Or put another way: When God is on the Earth dealing with men He is Jesus Christ.  It was He that Jacob wrestled with (Gen 32:24), it was He that Abraham paid tithes to (Melchizedek/Melchisedec) (Heb 7 & Gen 14).  God in flesh is Jesus Christ. See our The Holy Spirit & The Holy Trinity  .
 
The term like unto the Son of Man is used in Rev 14:14 to let us know that it is this same Jesus who walked the Earth which has authority over the reaping, but you notice that the commands come from 'another' in Heaven, i.e., "another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice" and "another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry"; These are relaying the commands of God.
 
Do not confuse this particular reaping with the destructions that come with Christ at His Second Advent, this (Rev 14) all happens well before the Second Advent.  As we saw earlier the entire chapter or rev 14 happens BEFORE even one of the vials is poured out; but the Second Advent happens AFTER all the vials are poured out.  At the Second Advent we see the final destruction of this world as we now know it:
THE SECOND ADVENT (Notice that Jesus is no longer referred to as the Son of man):

Rev 19:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (KJV)
One final point, if I may; you said:
"Can you tell me if the described person in Rev 14:14 is satan coming as the antichrist, because later I read in Rev 19:11 and 19:16 where this describes Jesus coming. So who is that coming on the cloud in Rev 14:14?"
But Rev 19:11 speaks of no one on any cloud, but rather that Jesus is on a White Horse.  In this you have confused two separate judgments and events (Rev chpt. 14 and Rev chpt. 19) and made them one when they are not one in the same event:
Rev 19:11
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.  (KJV)
Rev 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. (KJV)
A careful reading of the Scriptures removes much difficulty.  We cannot read into them what is not there any more than we can omit that which is there.  Both lead to error.
 

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Question #7
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Who was this "Man Child" in Rev 12:5 that God took to His Throne?

 

Kimberly writes:

 

Hi, my name is Kimberly

       I have been reading Revelation and was doing fairly well in understanding the material until I ran across the following statement. Please help me out if you can in understanding:

   Rev. 12:5      And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations
                      with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and
                      to his throne.

Okay, my question is:  Who was this "man child" that God took to his throne? I read on and there was never any more mention about this "man child" that was to rule all nations. What happened to this "man child"? But what confused me even more was when I came to the following verses:

  Rev:  19:11    And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and he that sat
                      upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth
                      judge and make war.
  Rev:  19:15    And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should
                      smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:  and he
                      treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
  Rev: 19:16    And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING
                     OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Okay, I take the Rev. 19:16 to represent "JESUS". Am I right? But the confusing verse is Rev. 19:15 where it talks about he shall rule them with a rod of iron. Now, takes me back to verse Rev: 12:5 with the woman bringing forth the "man child" that was to rule the nations with a rod of iron.  It makes me think that this is the "man child" that she gave birth to and God took to his throne.  But that cannot be so if Jesus is the one on the horse named Faithful and True, he couldn't have been the "man child" that was referred to as earlier, but since it never mentions what ever happened to that child she gave birth to and that God took him to his throne.

Please help me understand who is the "man child" and what happened to him. Because later we find out that the woman that gave birth to the man child was really Mystery Babylon, so who and where is her man child, because later verses lead one to think that he is the one that comes on the horse called Faithful and True ruling nations with his rod iron?....I'm sorry if I have totally confused you also, but I am struggling trying to understand these verses because am confused.   Thank you.

ANSWER:

The Manchild is Jesus Christ.

Rev 12:3-5
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.  (KJV)

The internal evidence in the Scripture declares who the Man Child is.  Observe from verse five above and answer:

Who is to "rule all nations with a rod of iron"?

Rev 19:15-16
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  (KJV)
 

Who was "was caught up unto God"?

Mark 16:19
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.  (KJV)

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (KJV)
 

Who is on "his throne"?

Acts 2:30
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; (KJV)

Rev 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (KJV)
 

You asked/stated:

"It makes me think that this is the "man child" that she gave birth to and God took to his throne.  But that cannot be so if Jesus is the one on the horse named Faithful and True..."

Why not?  Jesus returns at the Second Advent FROM Heaven.  Me thinks that you are taking that since Revelation chapter 12 comes before Rev 19 in the book that they happened in that order?  That is not the case, in fact Rev 12 is an overview looking back to the first earth age and forward to the end of this age.  Call it a parenthetical chapter if you wish.

And I have absolutely no idea where you got that "the woman that gave birth to the man child was really Mystery Babylon."

You may have visited some false teaching.  There is much false teaching regarding the Man Child; some foolish ones think that THEY THEMSELVES are the Manchild!!! (I kid you not, they really believe this sinful lie) See: Anatomy of a False Doctrine 

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Question #6
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How could the fallen angels of Gen 6 have impregnated flesh women?

 

Jim writes:

"...Now to my question, its about the ' fallen angels'  who came to earth and married the daughters of Adam.  If the angels had no reproductive organs, how could they have impregnated the women and had children born unto them?  Why would they have had  the ability to impregnate women if there were no women in the first earth age?" 

 

ANSWER:

Hi Jim.  What I specifically said was that they (ALL, even those born today a women) had no specific reproductive gender in Heaven.  What I meant by that is that there are no female gender in Heaven, not that there were no male gender in Heaven.

 
Perhaps you are not considering that even women today were "sons of God" before being born into this flesh world.  And the women of today who go on to heaven after they die shall not be female, they shall be sons of God; otherwise the following Scripture means that no women today can be saved (absurd of course)   "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."  (Rev 21:7).
 
The fallen angels were simply angels who sinned by coming here before being born of flesh; humans are angels that did come here through being born in the flesh.
 
How could an angel mate with a human female?  Probably the same way a human male mates with a human female. You do remember that angels ate with Abraham before they destroyed Sodom.  And you also remember that Manna is called angels food in the Psalms (Psm 78:25)?  So for them to have other physical abilities when in this world is not without precedent.
 
In one place on the site I went into how Jesus was male, circumcised, etc., and that Jesus is God in the flesh.
 
You ask me the "why's of God": "Why would they have had the ability to impregnate women if there were no women in the first earth age?"
 
Because He said so.

 

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Question #5
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Can telling loved ones the truth now place them in spiritual danger in the Tribulation?

 

Mark writes:

Hi,

My question concerns the teaching of truth to my family, friends, etc. I know that you can only pray for those who don't accept the truth now, and that although they will be ashamed on the day of the Lord, they will get a chance to be taught without deception during the millennium.

But what about someone who expresses desire to know the truth, but also a fear of it? My daughter seems very interested in the little bit that I've shown her (I've only recently had my own eyes opened), but she also has stated that she's afraid that she might fall to the charm of the Antichrist.

Should I continue to teach her? God forbid that I would stir her from the spirit of slumber to have her commit the unpardonable sin.

Wise counsel would be appreciated.

Mark

Answer:

    Hi Mark.  Don't worry, you couldn't do any harm even if you tried (of course you wouldn't).  See Rev 3:7; only Jesus can open the truth up to people and only He can close their eyes.  Thank God that He doesn't lay that awesome responsibility on our unable backs.

     If God wants them to know something there is nothing that anyone can do (including satan) to blind them to it.  Likewise, if they aren't supposed to know it, you could present all the proof in the world and lay it right before their eyes; and it just wouldn't register in their minds -- or they will see it for a glimpse and forget it (I have personally witnessed this phenomenon countless times, really!).

     So don't worry, you can do no harm by sharing truth.  And I wouldn't want to withhold truth if I were asked.  And if you are new to study and don't know the answer for sure -- tell them that -- they will respect your honesty and believe you all the more on the things that you are sure of.  Just be sincere and true, the Lord does not expect that we are perfect in our knowledge, teaching, or witnessing.

     But you might want to study up real well yourself, because new people have many questions and if you can't answer them; then they may doubt.

     But this is not charged to you.  Father protects His.  Faith, trust, and prayer will go miles further that wisdom, knowledge, and understanding; the first meaning so much more to our Heavenly Father than the latter.

     Trust the Lord, and pray for your loved one.  Your daughter will be fine; she has an Advocate in Heaven, even Jesus Christ; our Messiah, whom wasn't ashamed to call us friend.  And He is our friend.

God bless the study of His Word, in Jesus Christ' name!
Nick Goggin

Mark writes back:

Hi again Nick,
Thanks for your kind words of wisdom. I will continue with my daughter, and
my other kids, and whomever, as they desire.

I am paying a price. My wife rejects this, clinging to the church doctrines
she's always known. She believes I am being seriously misled, and is begging
me to not to teach this to the kids.
I believe that Matthew 10:35-40 is coming true in my life. I will continue
to pray for her, and about the situation; please pray for me also.

Thanks,
Mark

REPLY:

Hi Mark.  I feel for you, for I know that this is tearing you up inside.  I also feel that more needs be said on this matter.
 
You will notice in the Scripture that you referenced (and the other parallel Scriptures regarding the matter) that a man's family will cause him problems; however, the wife is not listed among the family members, for she has not the right.
 
Matt 10:34-38
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. (KJV)
 
Luke 12:51-53
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.  (KJV)
 
Matt 10:21
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. (KJV)
 Why?  Because he is over her, she is supposed to be subservient to him.  They became one flesh at marriage and cannot be divided, she is to follow her husband in matters spiritual.  If he is not a Christian she is free to divorce him, but she is not to usurp the man's authority in the household.  I know that this seems archaic in these confusing times of gender-role reversal.  Your wife is disobedient not only to you but to the Scriptures of life.
 
The man is to lead the woman, not the other way around.  Remember Eve.
 
Gen 3:17
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;  (KJV)
Satan used Eve to deceive and lead astray Adam, who at the first remained obedient to the Lord. 

1 Tim 2:12-15
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.  (KJV)
Scripture warns us that satan will try this with us and our wives if we let our guard down.  Remember Adam.
 
Micah 7:5
5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom. (KJV)
If your wife is such a Christian woman then ask her how she reasons the below Scripture away.
 
Eph 5:33
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.  (KJV)
 
Telling you to withhold truth, which the Holy Spirit has caused you to believe, which God proved through His Scriptures, from your children is certainly not reverencing you nor your authority and responsibility as a man, Christian, and husband.  She should consider herself chastised.  You may tell her I said so.
 
If you are teaching false doctrine to the children then she should divorce you if you cannot be corrected -- but if you aren't teaching false doctrine then she should get in her place as a wife and let you run your family as the Lord leads.
 
What you need to do is study hard so that you can show her in the Scriptures where what you believe is true is indeed truth from God.  If she disputes with God's Word then she is in worse shape than if she merely was disobedient to the marriage vow and God's natural order of mankind in marriage.
 
You are responsible not only for yourself, but also your children until they come of age to decide upon their own.  You are also responsible for your wife, her being the weaker vessel placed in your care by God.
 
Are we men of the church not even so with the Lord Jesus Christ?  He would not let false doctrines remain unchallenged, and He would not withhold truth simply to 'get along' with us.  God divorced His wife Israel.  And as the church is to Christ so too is your wife unto you. 
 
Am I telling you to get divorced?  No, I am telling you to lead.
 

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Question #4
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Was Adam the first human?

 

I.S. writes (regarding our Mankind; two separate 'creation events' study):

"Why shouldn't I agree with apostle Paul if he says: "ho prootos antroopos
Adam", and through that verse, that Adam, really IS a FIRST MAN!
(1.CORINTHIANS 15:45)"

Answer:


     Ummm.... I am at a loss as to how you could read any of our work and come to the conclusion that we want you to disagree with the great Apostle Paul or any other of the God blessed men who penned the sixty-six books that is God's written word, the Bible.  Perhaps this is just the way that you say that you and I disagree on what Paul meant. 

     But anyway, you read the Scripture lightly, separating the individual words from the greater sentence and thus losing the meaning and the thought that the Author was intending to the reader.  This is not an uncommon phenomenon, but it has caused you here to become confused.  Let's visit the Scripture together:

1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (KJV)

     Ok, what is Paul saying?  What is the subject?  for we cannot excise a word from a sentence and hope to grasp the greater meaning.  And more than that, we cannot take a verse out of a Scripture.  Let's not cut Paul off after a single verse, or worse, as you have done, to cut Paul off in the middle of a verse even!

     Let's look at a more complete thought

1 Cor 15:45-47
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. (KJV)

     We see in the Scripture that Jesus and Adam are compared, so to speak, they are compared and contrasted.  We see that they have something in common yet there is a difference between them.  

1st Corinthians 15:45-47
Adam Jesus Christ
The first man called Adam (vs.45) The last (no mere man) Adam (vs.45)
Made a living soul (vs.45) A quickening (enlivening) Spirit (vs.45)
Was not spiritual (vs.46) Was spiritual  (vs.46)
Was first before Jesus (vs.46) Was after Adam (vs.46)
Is of the earth (vs.47) Is from Heaven (vs.47)
Is earthly (vs.47) Is The Lord (vs.47)

   I ask you, is the subject here the creation of humans on this planet, or, is the subject here God's plan for dealing with mankind in regards to the eternity?  

     If, as you suppose, that the "The first man Adam was made a living soul" means that Adam was the first person on the earth, then you must also take that "the last Adam was made a quickening spirit" to mean that Jesus was the last person on the earth.

     Obviously there is a problem with your interpretation, for the Scriptures cannot fail; to read them as you have is to charge God with error.  For we all know that there have been billions of persons since Christ Jesus, but those of us who understand Genesis also know that there many persons before Adam as well. (Did not Cain find enough to build and people a city shortly after being expelled from Adam and Eve's region?)  

     This is the great problem of your interpretation, you are trying to make the Scriptures align with what you have been taught of man instead of letting the Scriptures reprove all men and clarify, edify, and teach the man of God that which the Holy Spirit would have him understand.

     Paul is saying that there were two Adams, one was a man and one was Spirit, though both called Adam; one was the first and one was the Last (not second, but Last!).  You can no more derive out of this Scripture that Adam was the first person than you can derive out of it that Jesus was the last person; this just simply is not the subject here.  If the creation of people were the subject then none could have been born after Jesus.  

     Paul is not saying what you claimed, for you omitted a word; you said: "and through that verse, that Adam, really IS a FIRST MAN!"  No, Paul did not say that Adam was the first man, he said that Adam was the first man Adam.  There is a difference, for as you have noticed in our study (Mankind; two separate creation events) Adam was indeed the first man Adam, but not the first man, there were people on this earth before Adam, but there were not yet any Adamites.

     Suppose I said that the first people of the Americas (the North American man) were here in pre-1 millennium b.c.  Can I then be read as saying that the first humans were from before 1 M. b.c.?  No, I cannot; that simply was not the subject of my statement.  Well, the same goes for our Scripture.  Adam was the first Adam, he was a man; Christ Jesus was the LAST Adam, He was the Lord from Heaven.  Why read more into the Scripture than is there?

1 Cor 15:45-47
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. (KJV)

     Jesus was the last Adam, not the last man Adam.  Adam was the first Adam and he indeed was but a man.  The subject is Adam, not mankind.  It's just saying that Adam was a man and Jesus was so much more.  What the Scripture is saying is that Jesus and Adam were of the same mission, to help mankind.  Adam failed to help the 6th day creation and couldn't even help himself; Jesus succeeded and helped all whom would believe upon Him.

     My name is Nick, if I wrote that the first man Nick was a handsome guy; would I really be saying that Nick was the first human being on the planet?  No, of course not, the subject is Nick' handsomeness, and the fact that he was the first named or regarded as Nick; not the order of creation.  The fact that "adam" means "man" in the Hebrew adds not a little confusion to the matter.

     The subject in our Scripture is Adam's "living soul" and Jesus' "quickening spirit," not who was first on the planet.  For you may notice that the 6th day creation  (the Gentiles) were not endowed with this "living soul, no such "breath of life" was placed into the 6th day creation at the first.  Their "breath of life" comes now through the resurrect Christ, but Adam was given it at the first.

Gen 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (KJV)

     The Gentiles created, male and female created at the same time.

Gen 2:1-2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (KJV)

     God finishes, all is in place.

Gen 2:5
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

     What's this, "there was not a man to till the ground"?  Error in the Scripture?  Don't be silly, the only error is in man's interpretations of God's truth!  Many a man thinks that Genesis chapter two is just a repeat of Genesis chapter one.  Why?  he did not learn that from reading the two chapters, he learned from a man.  Ask that man (or men) why it is that the order of the plants, animals, and people created is different between Genesis chapters one and two?  Will we charge God with mistake so as to hang on to the traditions of ungodly uninspired men at the pulpits of these beguiled times?  While there are men created on the sixth day, we see that there was no man to till the soil. Adam is not here yet, for Adam was to till the soil in the Garden of Eden "...and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." (Gen 2:15); this was not offered to the 6th day creation.

Gen 2:6-8
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

     We see Adam was given something that the others were not.  Why?  Because the others had by now failed, God sent Adam to lead the others back.  He failed miserable at the onset, for he was but a man himself.  God would need to send greater than Adam to defeat satan and redeem His children.  That would happen 4000 years later, when the last Adam would be sent, but much work need be done first.

Gen 2:5-8
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. (KJV)

     The Garden of God, paradise on earth, the Garden of Eden is set up upon the earth.  The plan for the salvation of mankind is begun.  Satan will see this assault and move to counter it.  Adam whom was FORMED (not created) is placed in this paradise, but as we know Adam would not only forfeit his right to physical and eternal life, but also forfeited his place in the paradise of God.  But be happy, for through the Last Adam Jesus Christ, all, including the First man Adam and all men before him can be reunited into the paradise of Heaven. 

     It is the whole salvation issue that is being spoke of in our Corinthians Scripture.  At the first Israel was chosen of God, but the Gentiles had to wait until God redeemed them through the Messiah.  The whole of Paul's writings declare this fact.

     Among other things the Scripture shows the lineage of Jesus from Adam, as does Luke chapter 3.  But the Last Adam Jesus was so much more than the first Adam who was only a man; for Jesus was the last Adam and He was both God and man, the first Adam was only flesh and was not God.  Hence Jesus is not referred to as the last man Adam, but simply the Last Adam.  It is also showing the Divinity of Christ Jesus.

     Now I suspect that you study from one of the corrupted newer Bible versions, like the NIV perhaps.  For if you used the trusted King James Bible version then you could have read down two verses and seen Paul tell you what I basically just did

     But look how the corrupt NIV renders this Scripture.  Compare the KJV (King James Version) with the NIV (New International Version):

King James Version:
1 Cor 15:47
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. (KJV) 

New International Version:
1 Cor 15:47
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. (NIV)

     See our study: Adulterations in the Newer Bible Versions...

     Now since you quoted the Greek, I will supply the Scripture below, as such, so that other's can see what you mean:

    Our Scripture:

"...The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." (1 Cor 15:45)

      Can you see what is being drawn out?  This Scripture has nothing to do with who was the first human being on the planet, it has to do with God's plan of salvation for His mankind and those two whom He sent.  Eve came of Adam and it was said of her: "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing..." (1 Tim 2:15).  From her womb came Salvation, Christ Jesus 4000 years later was born of the line of Adam; that is why Eve was called "the mother of all living" (Gen 3:20), for through her womb would be born Him who can make alive all that He wills.  

     Now I know that some who have a problem with the two creation events teaching will interpret that Scripture to mean that Eve was the first mother on earth so therefore she was the mother of all living.  This is incorrect, they forget about Adam; Eve wasn't Adam's mother, grandmother, nor great-grandmother etc., therefore she could not be the mother of all living as some reason it.  That interpretation is flawed.  Eve can only be the mother of all through her great descendant, Jesus Christ, whom is able to give life to all.  Eve was not the first female human on the planet and Adam was not the first male; he was the first Adam, but not the first of the species human.

     When the man Adam failed miserably from the very first, God came Himself in the flesh (Jesus) to finish the work of salvation of His creation.  Man is only capable of ruin, only God can save the destroyed.  And now through the Last Adam all can come to sure salvation.  For while the first Adam sinned, the Last Adam did not, though both were tempted of the devil.

"...Yea, hath God said...?" (Gen 3:1)  

"...If thou be the Son of God..." (Matt 4:3)

     The first man Adam brought death and sin, the Last Adam brought forgiveness and eternal life.  The first died for his own sin, the Last for the sins of others; for he knew not sin Himself.

     So no, Ms. I.S., I don't want you to 'disagree with Apostle Paul,' the purpose of our little Bible study group here on the 'Net is that you would first understand him then come to agreement with what he actually said.  Perhaps you ought to re-read the Mankind; two separate creation events study?

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Question #3
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Was Jesus God?

 

T.S. writes (Referring to our study: The Holy Spirit & The Holy Trinity ):

"Hello,

I was under the impression, that God was talking to The Word/Logos....ie Jesus..when he said .....let us make man in our image...??    not to the Angels..

Through out the new testament, Jesus spoke of his father...and said I am his son......
Before this the Israelites etc.....never new that there was two in the God Family..

John says, that the Logos/word was with God in the beginning, and that all things were created...through him...........and him alone....and that there's nothing been made that he never has made.....etc

Why would God ask the Angels ..???  what he should do..?
when johns already told us that Jesus. who came in the flesh.....who was the word/logos made everything.....your translation is a bit adrift.?

Yours t.s"

Answer:

Hi T.S.:

     In an accompanying e-mail you mentioned that hadn't fully read the study.  

And I know that this is a difficult subject.  But I think that if you read the study (not just skimmed it) you would find that your questions/objections are all covered with Scripture in the study itself. 

     I know what many have been taught, and I know that it is in disagreement with the Bible study (and the Bible for that matter), but what can I do about that, save to document the truth in the Scriptures that I would hope all Christians take as the last word on every subject.

You quote from John 1:1, but you left off the pertinent words to my point. Observe:

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (KJV)

     Ok, we know that Jesus was the Word, and in the above it says that the Word was God, i.e., Jesus was God.  Seems pretty plain and clear to me "the Word was God"; it’s just that the traditions of men have skewed the truth, and men love men’s words more than God’s Word.

     Jesus was God in the flesh, His name Immanuel even means "God with us."  Jesus is the Greek for the Hebrew Yehoshua which means "Yehovah the Savior."

The Prophecy:
Isa 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.  (KJV)

The fulfillment of the Prophecy:
Matt 1:23
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (KJV)

     Thomas called Jesus "my God" and was commended for believing it.  Jesus was called "the mighty God" and the "everlasting Father" in the Old Testament; Jesus said that He was God. But yet many Christians somehow do not know that Jesus was God in the flesh.

Documentation:

John 20:27-29
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (KJV)

Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (KJV)

John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (KJV)

     Even the unsaved Jews knew that Jesus was calling Himself God, why don’t saved Christians today know it; whence cometh that spirit?

John 10:30-33
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (KJV)

     He is God, and they killed His flesh body for it.  The Jews of time had twisted the Old Testament religion of the Hebrews  for their own ends, they left out God; and when He came, as it was prophesied in the Hebrew Old Testament Scriptures, they killed Him.  Just like Jews today see no need for The Savior, they believe that the 'Jewish' people are collectively the Messiah.  How far satan has gotten with them!  They shall see when He returns with a rod of iron and a sword of truth.  

     Many Christians are heading in the same direction with their corruption of God's Word.  Satan did it once and it brought about an Advent, he is doing it again and it shall bring about the Second Advent.  When Christianity finally fails miserably, God shall return.  Rapturists suppose that because they don't see much mention of the 'Church' in the book of Revelation that it has been taken out (Raptured); what they cannot see is that the Church is in Revelation, but that it is wholly corrupted, it is their legacy.  Is it not even corrupt today?

     And Jesus forgave sins; whom but God can forgive sin?  Jesus never asked God to forgive the sins, He (Jesus) simply forgave the sins Himself; none but God can do this.  That is why the Pharisees got mad at Jesus, they didn’t know the authority that Jesus had as God, so they accused Him of blasphemy.  

     And I didn’t say that God "got permission" from the angels, i.e., regarding your comment "Why would God ask the Angels ..??? what he should do..?"  I said that God was not speaking to Himself in Genesis 1:26, He was speaking to the angels.  WE were the angels before being born of flesh, we are made in the image of our angelic bodies.  Didn’t you ever wonder why, that if we were all modeled after the same entity, how come we all look so different?

     God does all the creating, I did not say that angels created anything (just to clear that up aforehand).  The word "God" in Genesis 1:26 is ‘Elohim and it is plural Hebrew word.  

Gen 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  (KJV)

God:  Hebrew word#430 'elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:  KJV-- angels, X exceeding, God (gods)- dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

     Elohiym is even translated once in the King James Bible as "angels":

Ps 8:5
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels [Elohiym], and hast crowned him with glory and honour. (KJV)

     Because of the plurality of the word many seek to 'correct' the Scripture by saying that it is speaking of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit.  Even though Jesus Himself said that God was One; and John wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One, and God said that God was One.  But man says that God is three.  What does it matter what man may say when God says differently?  The church has wholly failed God and now we have an entire Christian world that just doesn't understand the Scriptures.  Whence came that spirit?

Mark 12:29
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (KJV)

I Jn 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (KJV)

Deut 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: (KJV)

     In the below Scripture of Gen 1:27, we see that the King James translators placed a word in italics; that word is "own", and when a word in the King James Bible is in italics it means that the Translators ADDED the word to make the verse read better in English.  Unfortunately, when you add words you inadvertently add your own option and interpretation into it.  But on the other hand, many times it is necessary to add English words when translating the Hebrew and Greek because oftentimes one Hebrew or Greek word cannot be translated with only one English word.  The KJV Translators were faithful in that they placed the added words in italics so that the reader would know that they are added.  They were good men of God, not like the vipers that made the newer Bible versions (See: Adulterations in the Newer Bible Versions... ).

Gen 1:27
27 So God created man in his own [omit] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (KJV)

     Perhaps you should read the whole The Holy Spirit & The Holy Trinity study, for it covers so much ground on this topic; 50 pages as you say.

     You are going to have to go to the back of the class for making conclusions before finishing the study.

     :o)

     God bless you and your study of His Word.

NOTE:  Mr. T.S. followed up our answer with this question: Does 1st Jn 5:7 belong in the Bible? (of course it does)  

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Question #2
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Would Adam have lived forever?


Colby writes:

I have a question concerning Adam and Eve. Did God know that Adam and Eve would fall? I know that it is interpreted that if Adam had not fell he would still be alive. To me that doesn't make since.. why would we want to live forever in flesh bodies (talk about over population).. Plus the fact that the plan of God wasn't to about Adam's fall but from Satan's in the world that then was. 

Most people believe that Death (flesh death) entered with the fall of Adam. I'm just curious if it meant death as in "death of the soul" entered with Adam's fall because Adam committed the first sin and the wages of sin is "death" as in death of the soul. If Adam and Eve would have partaken of the "tree of life" a.k.a. Jesus (since he was in the Garden also) then they would have eternal life as in the "soul" not "flesh".. 

That is why God cut off Jesus until he was to be born of woman to give salvation to all. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" You and I both know that this scripture is talking about the "soul" not the "flesh".. 

Am I way off base? Please help 
thank you and God Bless 
Colby


Answer:

     Hello, you are not off-base.  What I would clarify though is that Adam indeed would have lived forever had he not sinned, for in Genesis 6:3 God announces that Adam's 'days' shall be 120 years.  Adam died exactly 120 years from that time at the age of 930 years old.  

Gen 6:3
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man [haa aadam - the man (Adam)], for that he [emphatic - Adam] also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (KJV)

     In the Companion Bible there is an appendix that touches on this subject:

"The Hundred and Twenty Years" of Genesis 6:3
This Is Appendix 24 From The Companion Bible.

   These are generally taken as meaning 120 years before the Flood. But this mistake has been made by not observing that the word for "men" in Genesis 6:1,2 is in the singular number with the definite article, as in verse 3 "man", and means THE MAN ADAM. The word "also" clearly refers to him. It has no meaning if "men" be read, in the plural. It means, and can mean, only that Adam himself, "also", as well as the rest of mankind, had "corrupted his way".1   If "men" be the meaning, then it may be well asked, who are the others indicated by the word "also"? [Ed. Note:  Dr. Bullinger apparently did not know about the sixth and 'eighth' day creations, which is why he struggled here]

   In Genesis 2:17, the Lord God had declared that Adam should die. Here, in Genesis 6, it was made more clear that though he had lived 810 years he should surely die; and that his breath, or the spirit of life from God, should not for ever remain in him. See the notes on Genesis 6.

   This fixes the chronology of verse 3, and shows that long before that time, Anno Mundi. 810, and even before Enoch, this irruption of fallen angels had taken place. This was the cause of all the "ungodliness" against which the prophecy of Enoch was directed in Jude 14, and which ultimately brought on the fulfillment of his prophecy in the Judgment of the Flood. See Appendix 23 and Appendix 25.

NOTE

   1 (beshaggam) because that also is so pointed in the Codex Hilleli. This makes it the Infantry Kalends (calends) of shagag, to transgress, go astray, and means, "because that in their going astray, he (Adam) also is flesh".

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Question #1
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The "born of the water" in John 3:5


A woman writes:

"Where do you get that Jesus is speaking of the water bag from the womb, and not speaking of water baptism in John 3:5 ?"


Answer:

      Let's look at the Scripture and follow the subject and the object.  Who was Jesus speaking to?  He was speaking to man that was alive, born of his mother from her womb.  Her 'water broke' and he issued forth.  Jesus tells this man that he must also be born from above (of the Spirit) to see the kingdom of God. ("born again" in the Greek is ‘born from above' - Strong's #509).

AGAIN:  Greek word #509 anothen (an'-o-then);from 507; from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew: KJV-- from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

      The man, Nicodemus then speaks of the womb and Jesus does not correct him.  Jesus acknowledges that man will not go through the womb for this second birth.

      Jesus then removes all difficulty for us by telling Nicodemus in verse 6: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."  Water baptism, while important, was simply not the subject in this Scripture.  For water Baptism does not make one "born of the flesh," but the birth from the amniotic fluid of the womb does.  See our The Holy Spirit & The Holy Trinity. 

John 3:3-10
3    Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4    Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6    That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [no mention of water Baptism here!  The "water" from the above verse is the "flesh" in this verse]
7    Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8    The wind ['The 'Spirit' in the Greek, with the article, i.e., The Holy Spirit. - Strong's # 4154 pneuma] bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit ['The 'Spirit' in the Greek, with the article, i.e., The Holy Spirit. - Strong's # 4154 pneuma] .
9    Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10    Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? (KJV)

      In verse 10 above, Jesus acknowledges that Nicodemus is a ‘master of Israel', i.e., a teacher of the Law (Torah - Old Testament).  Jesus chastised Nicodemus for not knowing the thing that Jesus was telling him.  Jesus expected Nicodemus to know of the spiritual re-birth from the OLD TESTAMENT, for Nicodemus had not seen the New Testament which was not written for years after this day.  In the Old Testament this new birth of the Spirit is written of, the Prophets of old foretold of this marvelous work of God that was to be done.  Below are two Scriptural allusions to this spiritual birth (born again, i.e., born from above):

Ezek 11:19
19    And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:  (KJV)

Ps 51:5-13
5    Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6    Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7    Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8    Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9    Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10    Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11    Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12    Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13    Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. (KJV)

   David's verse 13 above is spoken of again by James 1000 years later:

James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.  (KJV)


God bless, in Jesus Christ' name!
Nick Goggin

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